Not offering a full respec is a bad design choice.

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Joyrock101 wrote:

See, your reasoning comes down to "if you respec you're playing wrong", and THAT is why it is bad design. If you don't want to respec, if you want that experience, you don't have to respec - it doesn't hurt you AT ALL.

Adding it ONLY has upsides, because it allows players that DO want to respec to have the option.

It is not really an upside. Giving people an easy way out, and telling them "You don't have to pick the easy way, you can go the hard way if you want" isn't going to work.

In cases where the easy way is actually detrimental to the game (and the player), as I explained in my last post, it is best if the easy way is entirely avoided altogether.

That's the problem
Even Blizzard itself (you know, people who made Diablo) is on record for saying that people WILL take the easy way out if given the choice, no questions asked. They've said it during every expansion release and the easy way has become such an intrinsic part of the game.

They've said it about flying mounts. They've said it about free respecs. They've said it about account wide mounts, etc.

It's "too easy" nowadays according to a lot of people and its the player bases fault for constantly taking the easy way out.

By the way, Diablo 2 didn't implement respeccing until very late in its cycle.
And by very late, were talking the undead cycle. No game has ever achieved the undead part of its life.

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Ashwin wrote:

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Joyrock101 wrote:

See, your reasoning comes down to "if you respec you're playing wrong", and THAT is why it is bad design. If you don't want to respec, if you want that experience, you don't have to respec - it doesn't hurt you AT ALL.

Adding it ONLY has upsides, because it allows players that DO want to respec to have the option.

It is not really an upside. Giving people an easy way out, and telling them "You don't have to pick the easy way, you can go the hard way if you want" isn't going to work.

In cases where the easy way is actually detrimental to the game (and the player), as I explained in my last post, it is best if the easy way is entirely avoided altogether.

It isn't detrimental and doesn't hurt you at all if they take the "easy" way(which it isn't), so stop acting like it's a downside.

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Joyrock101 wrote:

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Ashwin wrote:

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Joyrock101 wrote:

See, your reasoning comes down to "if you respec you're playing wrong", and THAT is why it is bad design. If you don't want to respec, if you want that experience, you don't have to respec - it doesn't hurt you AT ALL.

Adding it ONLY has upsides, because it allows players that DO want to respec to have the option.

It is not really an upside. Giving people an easy way out, and telling them "You don't have to pick the easy way, you can go the hard way if you want" isn't going to work.

In cases where the easy way is actually detrimental to the game (and the player), as I explained in my last post, it is best if the easy way is entirely avoided altogether.

It isn't detrimental and doesn't hurt you at all if they take the "easy" way(which it isn't), so stop acting like it's a downside.

It's not about hurting me, it's about hurting the game, which it would, if ever implemented.

Diablo 2's respec tokens were a bad addition, thankfully, they came at a point when the game was starting to die out.

Role playing games are all about role-playing characters, and it doesn't work so well if you want to change your roles every now and then.

See, I don't see the respec options in D2 as a 'bad' addition. Just because of the fact of what you said, it came in such a late point in the game's cycle, it didn't matter.

That's what people wanted after nearly a decade of grinding to high/max level. They were still around doing it and it was all people wanted now, to mess around with the skill builds a little ala Diablo 3 and just have a little fun with the game.

Blizzard stood to lose no money at this point. If you didn't have Diablo 2 already, you probably weren't going to jump in and buy it then. And if you jump up and bought Diablo 2 because of this option, all power to you.

People need to start looking at this from a business standpoint as well.
It goes against their business model, simple as that. It goes against buying character slots for new characters, to use their stash tabs etc. etc.
The option to respec is there. You have orbs of regret and they are not hard to farm for.

If its really that painful, you can spend money buying enough points for a private league for you and your friends to have infinite respecs if GGG wishes to implement a system like that.

That's a fair compromise to me, vote on a feature with your wallet. Support the game.

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It's not about hurting me, it's about hurting the game, which it would, if ever implemented.

No, it wouldn't.

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Joyrock101 wrote:

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It's not about hurting me, it's about hurting the game, which it would, if ever implemented.

No, it wouldn't.

It would.
You see how I did that?

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Joyrock101 wrote:

It isn't detrimental and doesn't hurt you at all if they take the "easy" way(which it isn't), so stop acting like it's a downside.

While I normally avoid such passionate discussions, I do want to add in that I do think it would certainly be detrimental and a downside. Clearly, you're absolutely convinced of your position, and while I agree that a single full-respec at a specified point is a compromise in the "no respecs!" vs. "Full respecs!" debate, I'd like to add my opinion against your proposal. I will try to keep my opinion respectful of yours, and I apologize if it comes off offensive.

First, I'd like to point out that they already have a compromise to this debate in-game: Orbs of Regret. If so inclined, you can certainly trade for enough of these and perform a full-respec. The beauty here, to me, is that there's a significant cost to deciding to do so--meaning, you have more at stake to figure out where you should change them to. That being said, if you realized in hindsight that your 5-point investment into minions just isn't working out for your play-style and you want to go full cold, you could realistically adjust those pretty easily over time. (Now, if you went completely off from where you want to go, then a full restart is just better anyway, in my opinion.)

Second, let's say hypothetically they added this function so at level 40, you get your one-time full-respec. Ask yourself, when you hit 40, what are you going to do? Run to the forums of course! Speaking for myself, I'll look for the "optimal" level 40 build and copy/paste it in because it's my "only" chance to do so, and I don't want to miss it.

And this is where the problem lies that others here have tried to explain: by doing that, I have very little knowledge of exactly why and how this build works, because I didn't invest in it from the start--my gear isn't correct, my skill gems are likely not correct, my general combat movements possibly aren't correct, etc. Therefore, when I do even worse with this new build, I'm going to get disheartened that I must be a terrible player and get bored with the game.

EDIT: Spelling.

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LRCbeast wrote:

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Joyrock101 wrote:

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It's not about hurting me, it's about hurting the game, which it would, if ever implemented.

No, it wouldn't.

It would.
You see how I did that?

I've already seen you be wrong plenty, why would I care to see it again?

Yes, no yes no yes no . . .

My oppinion is true therefore yours is faulty. . .



Ps: i like it the way it is. Reasearch learn and adapt. the way a Hardcore Arpg should be.