did diablo 2 desynch as badly?

I guess I have a high tolerence for desync. Growing up on a 56k connection that often connected under 20kbs and still managing to out snipe most people in TFC got me used to having to overcome connection issues. Its just a part of online gaming that will never go away. Would I like desync to dissapear? Of course I would but I am not pretending its some easily fixed issue and I don't want mechanics dumbed down either. It may get better over time or it may not. Regardless I still enjoy this game a lot and plan to keep on playing. Its not a matter of being a fanboy or part of the defence force or whatever clever name you come up with. Its just I understand the issue and decided to accept it since the alternate eas to quit the game and fuck that.

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LogoOnPoE wrote:

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Sneakypaw wrote:

These are core mechanics that would have to change. And since GGG is making a game they would want to play I don't think they are changing the core. For examply eliminatiing being able to miss. They change core stuff like that and I can just as well go and play Diablo 3.

I would argue that monster collision and manual attack dodge are not core mechanics.

And regarding Diablo 3, honestly combat feels much better in D3 and I don't really miss the ability to dodge melee attacks. Do you really actively dodge melee attacks in PoE (except for bosses like Vaal, which would be possible in D3 as well, as some attacks can be dodged there)?
The reason I'm playing PoE instead of D3, is that D3 sucks in most other areas, but combat feeling is not it.

I do actively dodge ranged attacks. Since my main has negative cold resist (don't ask), anytime I see a cold skeleton fire off the slow cold projectiles I run around like hell so that I don't die. It's a gameplay alternative to maxing resists, and it requires a bit of forethought, something you can't do with D3.

Note, also, that most desyncs occur because you run through mobs, and they stun/freeze/slow you or whatever so that the server thinks that you're supposed to stop moving while the client says you can continue moving. This occurs because the client does not know how much damage mob hits affect you until the server says so.

One way of "fixing desync" there would be to somehow allow the client to see the damage dealt by mobs at the same time that the server does, which means that damage calculation is done on the client and the server, allowing the client to predict monster damage, and thus allowing you to cheat by seeing if the next monster hit would be insanely high and alerting you to actively avoid it, which is essentially equal to a never-die hack.

The other way of "fixing desync" would be to pause until the server manages to send you the damage figures. If you have 200+ ms ping, good luck at having pauses lasting 200 ms every attack. On mobs with fast attacks or who can deal 5+ attacks per second (aka any mob pack with more than 5 mobs), you instantly have 1 second of lag applied per attack. Multiply that by the number of attacks, and this game becomes Path of Powerpoint Screenshot.

Yet another way of fixing desync (the sensible way) would be to make sure that the server sends you the damage figures as soon as possible and in as small a time frame as possible. That way, when you receive the updated calculations, you're not too far from what happened and you are rubberbanded only a short distance back instead of halfway across the map back. The problem with this suggestion is that you need

a) More servers distributed across more ISPs, so that your latency is low;
b) Smaller and more efficiently transmitted and received packets, so that the amount of data you need to read is low, and finally;
c) Partial prediction based on mechanics. A normal act 1 mob, no matter how high the damage, cannot stun a 6k HP character with 20000 armor. The server should send some sort of upper bounds and lower bounds to mob damage to the client, so that the client can retroactively simulate and say, "well, there's no way for this normal hillock to stun my level 79 marauder, so I can safely path through it without fear of being interrupted in my animation", or conversely, "well, there's no way this CI character with 200 effective HP can run through Poorjoy's Asylum boss machinegun without being stunned, so to be safe I'll play the stun animation every time it hits no matter what the damage is or not". Note that you send only the bounds, and not the actual damage values, so the client still cannot predict death, but can predict if something will interrupt or not.

Solution A is easiest from a technical standpoint, but the most expensive. Solution B is harder, but less costly, and I don't know if Solution C is actually already being worked on right now so I can't comment on it.

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LogoOnPoE wrote:

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Sneakypaw wrote:

These are core mechanics that would have to change. And since GGG is making a game they would want to play I don't think they are changing the core. For examply eliminatiing being able to miss. They change core stuff like that and I can just as well go and play Diablo 3.

I would argue that monster collision and manual attack dodge are not core mechanics.

And regarding Diablo 3, honestly combat feels much better in D3 and I don't really miss the ability to dodge melee attacks. Do you really actively dodge melee attacks in PoE (except for bosses like Vaal, which would be possible in D3 as well, as some attacks can be dodged there)?
The reason I'm playing PoE instead of D3, is that D3 sucks in most other areas, but combat feeling is not it.

Exactly this is the problem..if GGG would suddenly change the code that melee attacks behave in same way like in D3 ..which could also reduce desync, players wouldn't even notice the change and GGG would be praised for fixing Desync..of course..there would be that one player..who would find out why desync is fixed and quickly update video on youtube showing "stupid" always hit system..but thats about it..

I have yet to see one player..streamer ..who is intentionally avoiding melee attacks.. We never did that before..but somehow ..now it's core design of this game..

Honestly, I believe GGG devs (nothing against them) are just stucked with their flawed ideas how game should be played..or are just afraid move away from it because of backlash from hardcore crowd would be immense.. same thing happen with loot system few months ago..yet..noone is crying now..

Again..keeping mechanics just for sake of keeping them ..even if positive part is affecting maybe 0,1% of players while negative part (desync) everyone is just beyond stupid..IMHO.

Sachiru, ranged attacks could be dodged even in diablo...and even some melee attacks are dodgable (maybe because they work like spells)..so..that's about it..

It's not about the evading of monster hits. It's about that your character can miss. In diablo 3 your character can't miss.

Fix this please.

Desyncs are the only bad thing about this game.

We should let our voices be heard, thats the only way they hopefully will fix this.

I don't know about as badly, but I certainly remember quite a bit of rubber-banding in D2. It's been a while though!

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Sneakypaw wrote:

It's not about the evading of monster hits. It's about that your character can miss. In diablo 3 your character can't miss.

Even misses aren't that noticeable. Do you use accuracy gem? Or do you just take RT and ignore the issue completely? Do you actively seek accuracy on your gear? I'd say most people don't consider accuracy to be a core mechanic either.

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LogoOnPoE wrote:

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Sneakypaw wrote:

It's not about the evading of monster hits. It's about that your character can miss. In diablo 3 your character can't miss.

Even misses aren't that noticeable. Do you use accuracy gem? Or do you just take RT and ignore the issue completely? Do you actively seek accuracy on your gear? I'd say most people don't consider accuracy to be a core mechanic either.

How do you define core mechanics?

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Sneakypaw wrote:

It's not about the evading of monster hits. It's about that your character can miss. In diablo 3 your character can't miss.

Miss/accuracy is just stat, like dodge/evade, resist, crit..etc..while it's additional check..it has probably minimal or even none effect on desync.. In other words.. lack of accuracy stat in D3 is design decision for gameplay, not for mitigating desync.. So PoE could easily keep this stat..and still fix desync issue.

We are talking about different issue here..