is IR really necesary?

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

I also have one character (ranged) that 14k+ evasion with 61-62% chance to evade (with Ondar's Guile, Acrobatics, and Phase Acrobatics), and I barely ever get hit, so I have time to recuperate the hits I got when they managed to get in my defense. Of course, I only got 2.7k HP, so if I ever get hit by Kole while under vulnerability, I am dead Jim.

Using ranged character with evasion, Ondar's Guile and both Acrobatics in combination with legacy Kaom. Almost immune to missiles (very good for ranged), and the melee that gets through Evade and Dodge needs to take down 8.5K life. Works really well.

Well i can understand that IR gives more flexibility plus a bit more defense than pure armor gear, in fact you can use grace for rising your armor. The problem, and thats why i have opened this thread is that there are tons of characters that have low dex like marauder, templar, etc and cant level grace to the higher levels.

In addition you have to spend some pasives (leather and steel, iron reflexes, etc) that could be used for hp nodes.

My real question is, does IR (plus prequisite pasive points) really worth it? its not better just go pure armor items with determination instead of grace (so you can use one damage aura) and like +50% max hp¿

with IR you can use evasion and armor items to provide armor and it is extremely more cost effective to gear up when you can choose from both armor and evasion items. On top of that - for me at least - it is far easier to find for example a chest with 2000 evasion or 1000 armor 1000 evasion than it is to find a chest with 2000 armor. That may just be my personal experience, though.

I also use high block % and blind on a totem (either skelly + blind or Incinerate + blind). When I get another cast on damage taken I'll be linking said totem to it.

Edit: As for passive points, it's generally only a very small number to reach IR.

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reboticon wrote:

with IR you can use evasion and armor items to provide armor and it is extremely more cost effective to gear up when you can choose from both armor and evasion items. On top of that - for me at least - it is far easier to find for example a chest with 2000 evasion or 1000 armor 1000 evasion than it is to find a chest with 2000 armor. That may just be my personal experience, though.

I also use high block % and blind on a totem (either skelly + blind or Incinerate + blind). When I get another cast on damage taken I'll be linking said totem to it.

Edit: As for passive points, it's generally only a very small number to reach IR.

It's definitely easier to get more raw evade or evade+armor off gear than just armor, the way the number work out.

I'm making that observation in a vacuum isolated from things like socket colors and attribute requirements.

IR let me fight this shitty RNG on armor/EV drops.

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Aetherium wrote:

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topcatti wrote:

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reboticon wrote:

Because that 1 time you dont evade a big hit, you die.

If boss hits you for 10k, your 8k armor wont do a jack squat. If you evade the attack on the other hand...

sorry to tell you, but bosses dont hit for 10k(except vaal but one does not simply tank his smash

If the boss hits you hard enoiugh to one shot you (and you have 6-10k HP) your 8k armour is worthless.

8k armour is less than 1k OHKO threshold, its worth about +600 flat HP.

EV is perfectly viable, it has a higher gear curve than armour (much like ES) but it works fine as a defense mechanic.

On the other hand IR is helpful for AR builds that want to have gear flexibility, not that AR is meaningful without really focusing on it anyway.

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Spysong192 wrote:

IR let me fight this shitty RNG on armor/EV drops.

This.

My 15K AR characters are fine. My 10K eva + Acrobatics characters are fine.

But my 4K AR/4K eva characters are weak. If I convert it into 8-9K AR is much better.

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tmaciak wrote:

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Spysong192 wrote:

IR let me fight this shitty RNG on armor/EV drops.

This.

My 15K AR characters are fine. My 10K eva + Acrobatics characters are fine.

But my 4K AR/4K eva characters are weak. If I convert it into 8-9K AR is much better.

Mixed EV AR tends to be more effective once reasonably geared than one or the other. You do realize that right? The L+S clusters are super efficient at multiplying the stats it's not hard or node expensive to end up wit ha 200% increase to both defenses. Oh and the massive enfeeble scaling.

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Autocthon wrote:

Mixed EV AR tends to be more effective once reasonably geared than one or the other. You do realize that right? The L+S clusters are super efficient at multiplying the stats it's not hard or node expensive to end up wit ha 200% increase to both defenses. Oh and the massive enfeeble scaling.

If things are designed reasonably:

Things in favor of AR+EV:

* By pure stats (not including keystones), mixed EV AR should be best, based on how the damage reduction and avoidance formulas work. L+S is awesome too.

* Armor should be inferior to EV+AR, as should evade, based on stats and most passives.

* EV is better at dealing with big hits (including the double-check against crits), and AR at dealing with small hits, so an EV+AR hybrid is going to (in theory) be versatile at mitigating or avoiding various types of damage.

* You also get gear versatility: can equip pure ev, pure ar, hybrid gear. (This feature is also provided by taking IR.)

* Enfeeble is maximally effective. It makes your EV better, and it makes your AR better.

* Versatility is awesome.

There are some game changers:

For pure EV:

* Acrobatics & Phase Acrobatics -- say goodbye to a large chunk of your armor. It will be harder to get enough armor to matter, though some can be useful if you can get it for free (I guess). Most of your "DR" comes from not being hit ever. Also you gain a genuine spell avoidance ability, which can otherwise (?) only be gotten by spell block.

* Ondar's guile: Get enough EV and you don't get hit by projectiles more than 5% of the time. Even less with acrobatics in play (or block). Ondar's guile is still useful for AR+EV, but you'll still get hit about 20% of the time or more, which is at least 4x as much as a pure EV is going to get hit.

* The new Jade flask. Huge boosts to EV, (including a multiplicative boost akin to "of iron skin" I think, but am not sure, someone should confirm or deny this :))

For pure AR:

* Unwavering stance. You don't get stunned! But, your EV won't do anything.
* Iron Reflexes. A nice way to stack your AR stat even higher, can help you fight the diminishing returns (a bit).
* Granite flasks of iron skin. HUGE boosts to armor. Synergizes with having high base armor.
* Endurance charges. Adds a flat amount of DR% *on top* of your armor-based reduction.

Ideally, all three (pure EV, pure AR, EV+AR hybrid) should be equally viable, and the decision should fall to what you're doing with your passive tree, gem colors, and other keystones that you plan to take.

I'm sure people can find more to add into each section :).