is IR really necesary?

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Aetherium wrote:

thats because IR helps greatly getting enough armour to withstand bleed, thats the main reason i usually pick up IR, lategame if you are able to get at least 10k armour without IR, you should respec out of IR and that way your mitigation will become even higher.
Pure evasion itself is only viable for those who use arctic armour(without any armour or using artic armour skill u will end up getting killed from bleed)

If you can evade the puncture, you don't bleed. That said, I've noticed bleed is an issue with evasion characters I've made. A solution: staunching flask.

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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topcatti wrote:

If boss hits you for 10k, your 8k armor wont do a jack squat. If you evade the attack on the other hand...

That is if you have 8k armor. In most cases for IR, 15k armor is much easier to reach than 15k evasion.


I have one character (melee) that has 20k+ armor with 90% phy dmg reduction (without Granite), and I am almost immune to physical damage. I have almost 5k HP.


I also have one character (ranged) that 14k+ evasion with 61-62% chance to evade (with Ondar's Guile, Acrobatics, and Phase Acrobatics), and I barely ever get hit, so I have time to recuperate the hits I got when they managed to get in my defense. Of course, I only got 2.7k HP, so if I ever get hit by Kole while under vulnerability, I am dead Jim.

The bolded part is deceptive; using the 20k and 10k numbers getting tossed around here, you only reduce a 10k dmg hit by about 15% with 20k armor. Even with 40k armor, you still eat 75% of the damage. That 10k hit will still kill you with 5k hp.

You need 120k armor to mitigate half of a 10k hit.

EDIT: Obviously this gets better with endurance charges up. Point remains that the armor formula is unforgiving w.r.t. high dmg hits.

Those big hits really aren't going to hit you if you're running high enough evade (to further mitigate chances of a crit landing), have the full 40% dodge chance, have the enemy blinded and enfeebled (enfeeble also reduces enemy accuracy, and blind is OP).

I rarely see blind get mentioned -- it's one of those things that only helps if you don't have unwavering stance, but it's pretty ridiculous on something like an RoA totem (for ranged chars).

EDIT: At some point in Anarchy I was facetanking map Hillock doing this with an archer; he couldn't get a single hit off. Ever.

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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syrioforel wrote:

Those big hits really aren't going to hit you if you're running high enough evade (to further mitigate chances of a crit landing), have the full 40% dodge chance, have the enemy blinded and enfeebled (enfeeble also reduces enemy accuracy, and blind is OP).

I rarely see blind get mentioned -- it's one of those things that only helps if you don't have unwavering stance, but it's pretty ridiculous on something like an RoA totem (for ranged chars).

EDIT: At some point in Anarchy I was facetanking map Hillock doing this with an archer; he couldn't get a single hit off. Ever.

My armor has blind (because of BoR) and enfeeble equipped as well.

Not using unwavering stance? I can respect that :)

IR that i never used btw but will with my newest char is (aside from that pointless discussion about ev>AR or AR>ev) usefull for one thing: many good uniques are EV/ES (carcass jack) or EV (alphas howl)

evasion in small amounts does nothing, it barely increases that built in 5% evade chance. so why waste it when all your other gear is armor?

If your character is a typical Strength-based melee character, Iron Reflexes is not really necessary. You'll have no trouble wearing plenty of Armour anyway. You could turn Grace into even more Armour, but you have to ask yourself two things:

1. Can I afford to run Grace and Determination? (By 'afford', I am including the opportunity cost of being unable to fit in other auras such as Hatred.) If not, probably Determination alone will give more armour than Grace + IR.

2. Is having even more Armour actually better than having Armour + a little bit of Evasion? The diminishing returns on mitigation cut both ways: a moderate amount of Evasion can be surprisingly good value for money in terms of how much chance to evade it gives. (Same goes for Evasion-heavy builds: a little bit of Armour will do more for you than you might expect, even with Acrobatics.) A mix of Armour and Evasion can work wonders if you curse your enemies with high-quality Enfeeble.

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syrioforel wrote:

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Aetherium wrote:

thats because IR helps greatly getting enough armour to withstand bleed, thats the main reason i usually pick up IR, lategame if you are able to get at least 10k armour without IR, you should respec out of IR and that way your mitigation will become even higher.
Pure evasion itself is only viable for those who use arctic armour(without any armour or using artic armour skill u will end up getting killed from bleed)

If you can evade the puncture, you don't bleed. That said, I've noticed bleed is an issue with evasion characters I've made. A solution: staunching flask.

well its a huge difference in play when u got armour and when you dont, if u get enough armour reduction bleeds do no damage meaning you can just play no brainer style, on my ek mara i can play with 1 hand - i dont need to use potions ever, i just press right mouse button and stuff falls, pure evasion cannot be played in that fashion, thats why its so unpopular