Game is too easy? Not complex enough.

Keep it civil, please. Even vague accusations of other posters regarding mental retardation will not be tolerated.

Make your argument but without attacking other posters.

I am done with this thread but will keep an eye on it.

Hardcore gamers...oh the irony...

"

GueulEclator wrote:

People just don't get the fucking point here. I wouldn't have pledged if I hated the genre!

All I'm saying, is that this game needs more challenge, and more skills.

I'm just trying to provide feedback on a matter that is easy to fix but critical. There is an issue, the game is so easy it's boring, and one could almost beat it with his hands tied behind his back.

Make some decent suggestions to make it more difficult. The game is challenging enough right now for new players trying to learn the systems. Finding ways to challenge long term players is an on going discussion.

"

GueulEclator wrote:

But I see, people just want me to be a Diablo 2 hater, while I really loved Diablo 2 back then, for it's innovation. They want me to be a COD fanboy, or worse, a Diablo 3 fanboy (I hate these 2 games). They just want to someone to bash on, so that they look a little bit smarter than they are (or aren't).

D2 is mega popular for a reason, adding in more skill based combat is pretty different than what the originators of the genre did. Yes I look at Diablo games as its own genre.

"

GueulEclator wrote:

By the way, there is a high level of mental retardation in some of the posters here, mainly those telling me to play COD. When was COD skill based? When did that game had depth/complex thinking?
What a constructive argument.

First person shooters have a ton more skill based gameplay than an ARPG or Diablo genre game. That is why people are thinking that you would enjoy COD. I personally don't see why an IARPG needs twitch skill. POE already has depth and complex thinking.

So much nonsense in this thread it's nearly frightening. Did I even asee a few pages back someone referring to Icewind Dale as an ARPG and comparing it to PoE?

There is a massive difference in mechanical possibilities for games that allow you to pause time, queue up commands, and sit back to watch the action happen. Of course there's more depth to what's happening during combat if you can stop it at any point to think about it. PoE doesn't, shouldn't, and can't work like that. This is a core difference between ARPGs and standard party based RPGs.

And I'm sick to death of everyone calling everything a Diablo 2 clone. Diablo 2 didn't invent top down rpg's, they weren't even the first to popularize them. You people need to go over to gog.com and learn some gaming history. Start with Ultima VII and Baldur's Gate. Then you can go around saying that all modern rpg's are a clone of those instead.

If the OP is serious about finding a top down arpg that involves lots of clicking but wants the clicking to "use skill", maybe try The Witcher. It's just like all the others, but the mechanic gives emphasis on the timing of the click so you don't just spam it (as much).

(alright, not done after all, but only because of Monsta. Damnit.)

gog.com is frightening. My friends recommend it but, dude, I played most of those games when they were first out. I'm not sure I need a trip down memory lane when I'm busy tripping down this new one.

But if you weren't around for those games, my goodness, they're where it's at.

Knowing all that, I still call PoE a Diablo clone. Again, read my original post (click my name, click the very last page and read the first really long post you see) to see why I do so with the highest of intentions.

"

Charan wrote:

gog.com is frightening. My friends recommend it but, dude, I played most of those games when they were first out. I'm not sure I need a trip down memory lane when I'm busy tripping down this new one.

Yeah, I haven't found much time for my GOGs since i started playing PoE, but I look at it as a cultural investment. Their catalog is basically a compendium of genre defining games that together represent everything that's great about the origins of the industry. And they are all DRM free, so I buy the games that I feel are "important", and stick them all on a big hard drive for posterity. There are a few of the classic rpg's that I still play a lot too, like the aforementioned Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment (which I view as the inspiration for many of the darker RPGs we've seen in recent years).

The community there is also generally great. I know there are a bunch of people from the GOG forums who also play PoE, as they were the ones that got me to try it in the first place.

"

Charan wrote:

Knowing all that, I still call PoE a Diablo clone. Again, read my original post (click my name, click the very last page and read the first really long post you see) to see why I do so with the highest of intentions.

Fair enough. It's a matter of opinion I guess, both in terms of defining the genre as well as use of the word "clone". Generally I think it's a pretty strong word to use about people's hard work, especially when there are people out there who literally clone game files and try to pass them off as games of their own (like Armed Heroes Online). I think simply using inspiration as part of the evolutionary process shouldn't be defined as cloning.

The one thing that bugs me about "Diablo clones" because it completely destroys my argument that they aren't clones, is the mana/hp HUD. They are undeniably cloned, from the blue and red orbs right down to the lightly marbled texture. It's the same with TL2 as well. I'd really like to see some new HUD concepts coming to the genre, as the current setup wastes a lot of screen space, and is starting to feel more and more generic with every game that uses it.

"

MonstaMunch wrote:

The one thing that bugs me about "Diablo clones" because it completely destroys my argument that they aren't clones, is the mana/hp HUD. They are undeniably cloned, from the blue and red orbs right down to the lightly marbled texture. It's the same with TL2 as well. I'd really like to see some new HUD concepts coming to the genre, as the current setup wastes a lot of screen space, and is starting to feel more and more generic with every game that uses it.

Noo, don't nerf my precious HUD, they already nerfed it enough since Diablo (1)...

Well actually you are right. It makes little sense especially on on widescreen (which, is a standard nowadays). What if the removed the mana and life orbs completely? You would know you are out of mana when you can't cast spells and you would know you are out of life when you die. It would also make the game a lot more complex and hard. Ok I am not completely serious about this. But something more sophisticated than a life orb or bar would be cool. Do you remember the health indicator from Doom?

"

wiggin wrote:

Do you remember the health indicator from Doom?

I do, but I don't think it would work for this. In my opinion, the best innovation for HUDs in recent gaming was the life meter in Dead Space, with the strips on the back of his suit. I thought it was a great way to display the information without wasting screen space or distracting the player. Sadly, it would be completely useless in a top down isometric game like PoE.

I think one possibility could be to offer a variety of basic options in the HUD options menu. Things like changing the hp/mp display to be purely numeric, or selecting various sizes and positions for the different HUD elements. Nothing revolutionary, just a few simple options to suit different tastes.

"

MonstaMunch wrote:

So much nonsense in this thread it's nearly frightening. Did I even asee a few pages back someone referring to Icewind Dale as an ARPG and comparing it to PoE?

There is a massive difference in mechanical possibilities for games that allow you to pause time, queue up commands, and sit back to watch the action happen. Of course there's more depth to what's happening during combat if you can stop it at any point to think about it. PoE doesn't, shouldn't, and can't work like that. This is a core difference between ARPGs and standard party based RPGs.

And I'm sick to death of everyone calling everything a Diablo 2 clone. Diablo 2 didn't invent top down rpg's, they weren't even the first to popularize them. You people need to go over to gog.com and learn some gaming history. Start with Ultima VII and Baldur's Gate. Then you can go around saying that all modern rpg's are a clone of those instead.

If the OP is serious about finding a top down arpg that involves lots of clicking but wants the clicking to "use skill", maybe try The Witcher. It's just like all the others, but the mechanic gives emphasis on the timing of the click so you don't just spam it (as much).

In truth complexity of Icewind dale combat does not come from being able to pause, being able to pause lets you use all the options at your disposal in time to survive ;)

It comes from D&D ruleset being really complex. PoE mechanics (except for almost needing advanced math) are not nearly as complex as D&D is. If anyone, the guy that is complaining here is right that PoE could use some D&D infusion by introducing some more complexity. Things like different weapons for different monsters and reach weapons together will extra attacks against monsters coming into reach but penalties once they are inside would help make PoE more interesting (these were only 2 examples, lots of good ideas from D&D could be implemented into PoE).

As for GueulEclator wanting a more hardcore game, I would point him in the way of Starcraft 1. And if that game scares him then Starcraft 2. He will never reach the skill cap of either game while both need him to think in real time all the time. Starcraft 2 was the one game that made me tired mentally when I played it instead of relaxing me like most games do.

"

"Torin wrote:

Starcraft 2 was the one game that made me tired mentally when I played it instead of relaxing me like most games do.

Oh god, that is so true. Stupid game kept putting me in Diamond and Master leagues, when all I wanted was to have a fun time. The rock-paper-scissor nature of Starcraft 2 made it more stressful than playing slots at the casino...