Quality of Threads decreasing.

Lethal:

there are basically 2 types of "elder statesmen" on the PoE forums:

1. Those that will take the time to explain (and re-explain...and re-explain) concepts to players (new or otherwise). Those that, even if tired of hearing it a thousand times, will still take the time to help. Example are: Charan, Pneuma, Vipermagi, Drakier, and many others.

2. Those that tell it like it is. Those that have gotten tired of repeatedly explaining the mechanics and hearing the same old "suggestions and feedback" ad nauseum. Rather than repeat what has already been explained (<--- if forum users could learn to use the "search" function or if the search function was made better, they wouldn't have to...in their defence). Some of examples of these are Slayer, Enshin and others.

Neither group is "better" than the other. It's all in how ppl read their comments. You can take it for what it is. Whether a detailed explanation is given or a simple 3 line reply, they are in fact quite the same.

As for group 2: I want to be VERY clear... If a good/new idea is proposed, they will take the time to explore it. They are dedicated to the game and to GGG. I have the utmost respect for them and their dedication to helping PoE as they see fit, and I don't blame them for, at times, being tired of what is written on the forums (title of this thread is a pretty good explanation lol).

I think GGG has made some obvious decisions which do nothing other than drive away users who are on the fence about the game. I dislike that method of running business. But I have to accept that they are the ones who are putting in the hours, so they are the ones who have the privilege of deciding where to take the game. They did a good enough job that my personal stake in the game feels larger than it really is, and I should respect that.

I also recognize that no one is infallible. Neither myself, in my assumptions and projections about the game, nor GGG, in that they do not necessarily intend for the results which come about from their decisions. Especially since the last of my feedback was not received well (I didn't expect it to be, but I was hoping to be surprised). I may have lost touch with the community. It's difficult to analyze something without understanding it, so I am going back to reading and learning... re-evaluating if my opinions still hold water after all that has changed since initially forming them, which is a lot.

If I were to leave and give just 1 last item of feedback, I think it would be this: Skill design should involve everyone in the company, not just a small group of dedicated designers. Even if the person has no technical ability, at the very least they can playtest and provide feedback like "Oh this skill would be even cooler if it did [X], too!" Iterate, iterate, iterate. And not just the numbers, but the functionality of the skill as well. Move it up the power curve, move it down the power curve-- figure out where it best plays a role and make it rock the hell out of that role! Don't try to balance it concurrently with designing; wait until the very end before before refining balance. If the numbers are off, they can easily be tweaked later with patches, but if the skill doesn't fill a role there's virtually no way to fix it down the line.

@Josephoenix: I know another category of people btw: Those who post walls of utter crap.

I mean you are categorizing "elder statesmen" on the forum....

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Startkabels wrote:

@Josephoenix: I know another category of people btw: Those who post walls of utter crap.

I mean you are categorizing "elder statesmen" on the forum....

you're right I forgot about that category. Sorry Start! I won't forget about you in the future. I've looked into your more recent posts (over the last couple days actually) and I must say, I can't believe I missed it. however the term "statesmen" doesn't quite apply to this group.

edit: as a side note: This group of ppl cough cough, would do well to read raycheetah's signature. it definitely applies

Content Removed by Admin: See Forum Guideline C

I do find it funny, the quality of posts (replies and threads), that aren't stupid, antagonistic, angry at GGG, or just not listening to reason or not using logic

"I don't know if this pipe is hot, therefore the opposite is true, it is not hot"

Cause if something is unknown, it is apparently "logical" according to one person, that the opposite is true.


But I digress. What I was going to say, is I am always unsuprised when the intelligent replies, the 'it is going to work' or the 'this system IS better' comes from those who were in CB.

And why? Because in CB the mechanics weren't as good (they were still being improved), we understood what was happening, and the game was fun.

Now its full of people who constantly complain, or want to make major changes to things which don't need it (Lets change the passive tree), or are just there to troll/cause problems.

Overall the quality of feedback has dropped because the people giving it are aware of how terrible the quality of feedback is and so they end up either just posting to hopefully convert one person, or because they are bored at work and have nothing better to do

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Spoiler

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Real_Wolf wrote:

I do find it funny, the quality of posts (replies and threads), that aren't stupid, antagonistic, angry at GGG, or just not listening to reason or not using logic

"I don't know if this pipe is hot, therefore the opposite is true, it is not hot"

Cause if something is unknown, it is apparently "logical" according to one person, that the opposite is true.


But I digress. What I was going to say, is I am always unsuprised when the intelligent replies, the 'it is going to work' or the 'this system IS better' comes from those who were in CB.

And why? Because in CB the mechanics weren't as good (they were still being improved), we understood what was happening, and the game was fun.

Now its full of people who constantly complain, or want to make major changes to things which don't need it (Lets change the passive tree), or are just there to troll/cause problems.

Overall the quality of feedback has dropped because the people giving it are aware of how terrible the quality of feedback is and so they end up either just posting to hopefully convert one person, or because they are bored at work and have nothing better to do

This thread has proven itself true because those who actively decrease the quality of threads just couldn't stay away.

I recommend just letting it go, Wolf.

(Don't I always, eventually, recommend that?)

I am of #2, I am bored at work and have a lot of downtime sometimes, so I just post on here. There isn't much more I do with my spare time, other than a great set of puzzle type games (search Simon Tatham's puzzle collection)

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

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lethal_papercut wrote:

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Josephoenix wrote:

Let us be thankful that Slayer is still fighting the good fight and have been for a very long time.

I have a challenge for you...

Have a look through Slayer's post history. The challenge is to find a post that is longer than 3 lines long. I will give you extra bonus points if you can find one of his posts that is actually feedback & not just a 1 line dismissal of what someone said, I will give you even more bonus points if you can find a single post of his that actually talks about a problem & how to go about fixing it.

Good luck, it doesn't exist.

http://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-posts/SL4Y3R/page/2#p4642836

page 2. Clearly more than 3 lines.

Also, I could show a lot more but that'd be breaching alpha NDA.

Nice try though.

Please stop picking on individual forum users. I consider that most definitely antagonistic.

Can we also establish that Slurm PMs devs when he has questions. He would constantly bounce ideas off me then PM Qarl, Chris, Mark or whoever best suited to answer the question. I've never seen Slurm get involved in a knock out drag out battle that I always find myself in on the forums but he's always giving good feedback. Some of the best feedbackers (?) I've meet rarely ever post to the forums.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Most definitely. He didn't get into alpha for '1-3 line' responses. I keep forgetting that SL4Y3R is Slurms, whose name of course did resound through the Closed Beta Merciless crowd for one reason or another.

And you're right about the feedback thing -- for all the posts we see here, you can expect quite a few that go straight to the GGG inboxes, precisely because some people don't want their feedback to be publicly scrutinised........and who can blame them?

Mouze is the best example I can think of. That dude made me feel foolish sometimes with my suggestions. He had a deep understand of the game and was always giving incredible feedback. I doubt that guy ever posted to feedback forum once. Trust me guys, he didn't get alpha from being a top racer in CB, the dude was PMing awesome feedback. Shame he's moved on to other games.