Update 2: Grammar Error on Close Helmet vs. Close-Helmet (image and answer)

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Qarak wrote:

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

Instead, I am here to discuss an error (controversial it may be,) and since this thread continues to prolong, it has been great intellectual sparring practice for me.

more like a waste of time, honestly.

If being a critic on various levels didn't make me money, I would agree, but that's not the case. Therefore, grooming my discussion skills is necessary for my acumen, meetings and daily debates.

Otherwise, I would have left this thread long ago in saying, "There is no sense making sense to those who cannot make sense of sense, be it common or not."

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

You are correct, only in that it's the helmet's name, a name that incorrectly explains the mechanics of the helmet's capability to open and close because it lacks the Hyphen.

Names do not have to explain the mechanics of an item. Like "beach chair".

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

If I were to boast furthermore on what other things and professions I had to master and accomplish first to become a published writer and prominent art and literary critic throughout one of the world's largest sites for art and writing, no one would believe me.

"largest" doesn't mean most professional
And I am still sure that people who write dictionaries had to do more and prove themselves in places that actually matter - like universities - not the internet.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

grooming my discussion skills is necessary for my acumen, meetings and daily debates.

Lol is this a debate?
I thought it was more like a clownery

Also, if you need to "groom your discussion skills" on the internet, well...

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Qarak wrote:

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

grooming my discussion skills is necessary for my acumen, meetings and daily debates.

Lol is this a debate?
I thought it was more like a clownery

Also, if you need to "groom your discussion skills" on the internet, well...

yeah, and it's not like repeating the same thing that has nothing to do with facts actually classifies as "discussion skills"

I saw this thread and wow, like OP, you need....a new...hobby...or a women...or something more constructive to pass the time with..

p.s does my over use of Full stops and incorrect use of capitals and grammar make your eye twitch?

OP, it's a technical term.


Treat "Close" as a proper noun. You are not asked to describe it, you are asked what its name is. It could've been more descriptive as Closed Helmet, but that's what the first man who coined it, coined it. You can't argue with that. He may be grammatically incapable (or just medievally trolling) but it's what he wanted. Even if he could've been misheard or misunderstood, there's no governing body that mandates what is right or acceptable. Unless of course that it is not a proper noun, then grammar grabs it by the neck and corrects it.

If you really want your correction to have a legitimate ground, travel back in time and start an academic, non-governmental body that standardizes the name of medieval armors. Then, when the inventor of the helmet calls it Close Helmet (or when scribes mishear him and write Close instead of Closed in their ledgers) then you have the authority to call him for not following your agreed upon naming convention.

IUPAC does that for newly discovered elements or ICZN for animals.



TL;DR: "Close Helmet" =/= "helmet" with incorrect modifier "close" =/= helmet that is closed =/= helmet that is near =/= almost helmet

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Qarak wrote:

Lol is this a debate?
I thought it was more like a clownery

Also, if you need to "groom your discussion skills" on the internet, well...

When there is disagreement and conflicting opinions, yes, this has become a debate.

I don't just criticize, speak with or debate with people on the internet. I do this on the outside as well and get paid for doing it.

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Dunnzo wrote:

I saw this thread and wow, like OP, you need....a new...hobby...or a women...or something more constructive to pass the time with.

This is my job, not a hobby. I get paid for being a critic on the outside, within online communities, and other things I am involved in.

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Dunnzo wrote:

p.s does my over use of Full stops and incorrect use of capitals and grammar make your eye twitch?

Not at all. It is your choice to be and look illiterate. If I cared so much, I would have corrected every little error you and other people have made in this thread.

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Antistes wrote:

yeah, and it's not like repeating the same thing that has nothing to do with facts actually classifies as "discussion skills"

Repetition has to be made because no one gets the OP.

I never said any of the claims I made were 100% factual. If anything, I have been inviting in that I want other people to tell me how the things I've been pointing out are wrong, better, 100% wrong.

All I continue to see is, "This source says this, therefore, you're wrong."

Guess what? I already blew these sources out of the water in that they don't include any argument against my claims. Until then, I cannot take these third-party sources seriously.

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ArtificialDream wrote:

OP, it's a technical term.

Correct. It is a technical term, and technical terms have specific meaning(s) within a specific field of expertise. Within each field, they have one or more specific meanings that are not necessarily the same as those in common use.

However, that does not mean some (not all) technical terms cannot be hyphenated to emphasize the specific meaning(s) behind them.

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ArtificialDream wrote:

Treat "Close" as a proper noun.

The word close is a noun-verb (used with object,) not a definite noun, whereas the word helmet is a definite noun.

Some (not all) words that are noun-verbs, when linked with another word to form a name, should have a Hyphen between the two words. Since 'Close Helmet' is a name with two spaced words, it would make more sense if there was a Hyphen in between to emphasize on its meaning.

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ArtificialDream wrote:

You are not asked to describe it, you are asked what its name is.

Your statement applies more to names like the James Webb Space Telescope or the medieval 'Great Helm' (also called the pot helm.) Other names like Bob, Bryan, Frank, etc. when linked with a middle and last name are exceptions because they are definite names.

Even though names like Bob, Bryan, Frank, etc. may have meaning or a story behind them, they are not considered actual words because they cannot form sentences on their own. They are names. There is the difference. When a name is made up of multiple words (not definite names) linked with an object to form a name, then is when hyphenation may be needed, or, the two words need to be brought together as in Football.

"So why do compound words like Football not have a Hyphen in them?"

If certain compound words had hyphens in them when they should not, they would imply something else, imply nothing at all OR try and convey a deeper meaning that's not there.

For example, Football would still be related to the game if we were to say, "You got foot-ball bunions." The reason is because the word foot hyphenated with ball doesn't give the words a different meaning. It still relates to the game Football, and tells you the bunions were caused by playing Football.

Bringing us back to where we were, the names James Webb Space Telescope and 'Great Helmet' do not need hyphens because these names already state what they are within their names. Great Helm; what is it? It's a Great Helm! Or simply 'Great Helm' yet still makes sense even if you don't think about it.

On the other hand, the 'Close Helmet' (also called the Close Helm) does not really say what it is or what it does. The implication between the words Close and Helmet is very vague.

You cannot sit here and say 'Close Helmet' (as it is) says more about itself, clearly, than the name 'Great Helm,' regardless if descriptions in names are not needed. Arguably, certain names (not all) like 'Close Helmet' that are vague should consider hyphenation, or perhaps be improved in another way so they make more sense.

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ArtificialDream wrote:

It could've been more descriptive as Closed Helmet, but that's what the first man who coined it, coined it. You can't argue with that. He may be grammatically incapable (or just medievally trolling) but it's what he wanted. Even if he could've been misheard or misunderstood, there's no governing body that mandates what is right or acceptable. Unless of course that it is not a proper noun, then grammar grabs it by the neck and corrects it.

Yes I can! I have already questioned and argued this helmet's name. I don't care how dead the guy is who coined the helmet's name. On an astronomical level and unrelated note, if someone back in 2006 could convince most of the world and Astronomers on why Pluto is not or should not be considered a planet, I (or anyone else) can argue other things like the name of an ancient helmet.

The governing bodies on what is acceptable in the written word, anything, are people like me who care to make something more correct if proven wrong.

Again, just because someone is dead doesn't mean their inventions, views, theories, etcetera and etcetera cannot be questioned or challenged. It is foolish to argue otherwise.

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ArtificialDream wrote:

If you really want your correction to have a legitimate ground, travel back in time and start an academic, non-governmental body that standardizes the name of medieval armors. Then, when the inventor of the helmet calls it Close Helmet (or when scribes mishear him and write Close instead of Closed in their ledgers) then you have the authority to call him for not following your agreed upon naming convention.

It is not about traveling back in time. The stupidity in such things said is fantastic. On another note, the above quoted looks like you got tongue-tied in a couple areas.