Maps for end game isn't enough

Map drop rate sux, high level maps the most, you know it I know it, everyone knows it! I'm lvl 77, I was lvl 65 when maps was introduced as the new end-game and since then I'm running maps with everything possible - from high IIQ to new "maps buff" with maps with 90+ quantity and yet i've found only 5-6 lvl 65 maps and nothing more. Yeah it's beta.... why the hell we can't test that end-game properly GGG? Those that found lvl 65+ maps are less than 20% of the player base.


Bring back MoC, once you enter MoC you have a task to kill XXX monster to enter next stage which will be lvl 61 and so on, this will prevent players with phase run getting to lvl 69 maps. MoC was the real challenge.

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ultrahiangle wrote:

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rflynn74 wrote:

The idea that end game is pvp is shallow. Pvp is just for me to dick around with, that's all. It's there as a simple addition to the game, its hardly thought provoking or engaging long term. This isn't an fps its an arpg.

only way i can see this point of view is if you never played a game with good pvp

ARPGs aren't about PvP. Games like RO, Guild Wars are more about PvP.

If I wanted endless metagaming and competitive games against fellow humans, I'd play DotA, or Starcraft.

Like someone else earlier said, it makes no sense for a game that has been 99% PvE suddenly become all about the opposite.

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S_SienZ wrote:

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ultrahiangle wrote:

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rflynn74 wrote:

The idea that end game is pvp is shallow. Pvp is just for me to dick around with, that's all. It's there as a simple addition to the game, its hardly thought provoking or engaging long term. This isn't an fps its an arpg.

only way i can see this point of view is if you never played a game with good pvp

ARPGs aren't about PvP. Games like RO, Guild Wars are more about PvP.

If I wanted endless metagaming and competitive games against fellow humans, I'd play DotA, or Starcraft.

Like someone else earlier said, it makes no sense for a game that has been 99% PvE suddenly become all about the opposite.

I disagree. The difference between those games and PoE is MMO. Now a days, most of the games are ARPG, they all have the Action aspect within.

Besides, most game companies create PvP to have unlimited contents, instead of creating contents with limitation of the game itself. Continue to add content is very difficult, and PvP is a good way to maintain excitement.

Meanwhile, I think Ragnarok Online is a very similar game. Although Ragnarok is a MMO with fake 3D (2D with 4 sides), but the portal connection between each map is identical to PoE. Therefore, the only difference is the limitation of players in each map. PoE has more calculations, so it is more resource heavy. While private Ragnarok server can still handle 60 players on the same map (just a little lag with the skill graphics and damage number flying around).

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markshiu wrote:

I disagree. The difference between those games and PoE is MMO. Now a days, most of the games are ARPG, they all have the Action aspect within.

Besides, most game companies create PvP to have unlimited contents, instead of creating contents with limitation of the game itself. Continue to add content is very difficult, and PvP is a good way to maintain excitement.

Meanwhile, I think Ragnarok Online is a very similar game. Although Ragnarok is a MMO with fake 3D (2D with 4 sides), but the portal connection between each map is identical to PoE. Therefore, the only difference is the limitation of players in each map. PoE has more calculations, so it is more resource heavy. While private Ragnarok server can still handle 60 players on the same map (just a little lag with the skill graphics and damage number flying around).

The concept of PvP simply isn't compatible with PoE's philosophy of a player being able to build any character into any role.

Balancing would make playstyles bland, and every player who wanted to remain relevant in the end game would be forced to go for the optimal build.

The last thing I would want to see is perfectly fun PvE playstyles being nerfed to the ground because they were broken PvP.

I agree end-game maps aren't enough. Sure they're pretty cool at first, but they quickly get boring and redundant. While end-game maps allow for additional quality and quantity of items and better mods on equipment due to higher level items, end-game maps should be "unique" in that you can get "special" gear/events ONLY in them. Here are three possible suggestions for end-game maps in Open Beta. I prefer option 3.

For starters maps can be levels 60-99. While in an end-game map, monsters can drop maps +/- up to 5 levels.

1. Randomized quests from any of the 3 acts, or special quests created only for end-game.

2. Passive Skill Shards (20 makes a Passive Skill Orb used to grant 1 passive skill).

3. "Super Items" and/or Jewels/Runes/Whatever you want to call them.
(These would either be twice as rare as their "normal" counterparts, or they would be a mod on a rare or magic magic map (OR maybe Super Items could only be found on Unique Maps).

-Super Items (Colors are just suggestions)
a. Super Magic (Up to 4 Mods - Color Green)
b. Super Rare (Up to 8 Mods - Color Red)
c. Super Unique/Legendary (Randomly combines two Uniques - Can have up to 2 Keystone Skills/Abilities - Color Bright Orange; change regular uniques to brown.)

-Jewels/Runes/Whatever you want to call them.
a. Passive Skills - Can be socketed into any socketed item. These are skills from the Passive Skill Tree and are granted when put into a socket.
b. Gear Mods - Similar to gear mods on equipment, these add prefixes and/or suffixes to the gear when socketed.
(Not sure if these would be similar to gems or if they would be similar to items, in that they could be normal/rare/magic.

Also, there should be a vendor in the Eternal Laboratory. Like a Crazed Hermit or something, who sells level 60+ gear.

Doing something like this would really make the end-game maps fun and something to REALLY look forward to. In addition, this would also really make PoE stand out from Diablo, in which it shares a lot of similarities.

What do you think?

You know what my version of end game is and always has been for games? Making new characters.
So long as there are always a lot of interesting new builds to try and characters to play, I'll always have something to do. Therefore, I think making the path from 1-max level interesting and dynamic is more important than "end-game".

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

You know what my version of end game is and always has been for games? Making new characters.
So long as there are always a lot of interesting new builds to try and characters to play, I'll always have something to do. Therefore, I think making the path from 1-max level interesting and dynamic is more important than "end-game".

No offense, but I'd have to disagree with you that the end-game should be that you simply start over. While that might work for you, or even might work with a console game you play at home, it is not enough for a MMMORPG that has lots of competition and wants to survive for a number of years, not only making money, but millions of customers happy.

Sure, while creating new characters, tweaking builds, and all that is fun, eventually I want to settle on a character and make him/her as bad ass as possible, and continually work on getting better and stronger. Without a solid end-game this isn't possible.

So why do what everybody else does? Be different, be better, and do what nobody else is doing. I'm already enjoying how much more variety PoE has over Diablo 3, and I hope they continue to push. Keep up the good work GGG.

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paradox404 wrote:

Map drop rate sux, high level maps the most, you know it I know it, everyone knows it! I'm lvl 77, I was lvl 65 when maps was introduced as the new end-game and since then I'm running maps with everything possible - from high IIQ to new "maps buff" with maps with 90+ quantity and yet i've found only 5-6 lvl 65 maps and nothing more. Yeah it's beta.... why the hell we can't test that end-game properly GGG? Those that found lvl 65+ maps are less than 20% of the player base.


Bring back MoC, once you enter MoC you have a task to kill XXX monster to enter next stage which will be lvl 61 and so on, this will prevent players with phase run getting to lvl 69 maps. MoC was the real challenge.

Why not make it mandatory that the unique boss drops 1 map? That way you can continue playing end-game maps, rather than having to resort to trading for one when a level doesn't drop any maps. And since the boss is always a higher level, you'll have a better chance of getting a higher level map.

I think that would be a nice and easy fix.

quests for maps: i'll pass - quests in ARPGs are mostly the way for the story to happen, not a mmo thing to make you feel rewarded.

skill shards: hell no - even if you set a limite for extra passives it would break the economy and balance inbetween lvls.

humongous items: after all it might happen - GGG actually said they would make SETs and they would fit in quite well for end game content only if you ask me.

getting one map in the end of every finished map: ME GUSTA - specially if GGG can script it's receival as from a rank for time finished, dmg taken, dmg dealt... it is a great way to make you receive one map that would fit your greatness in the last map played.

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Amarena wrote:

quests for maps: i'll pass - quests in ARPGs are mostly the way for the story to happen, not a mmo thing to make you feel rewarded.

skill shards: hell no - even if you set a limite for extra passives it would break the economy and balance inbetween lvls.

humongous items: after all it might happen - GGG actually said they would make SETs and they would fit in quite well for end game content only if you ask me.

getting one map in the end of every finished map: ME GUSTA - specially if GGG can script it's receival as from a rank for time finished, dmg taken, dmg dealt... it is a great way to make you receive one map that would fit your greatness in the last map played.

Yeah, I figured as much on the first 2 points. But on point 3, it's not just humongous items (Super Items), but also stuff like runes, or jewels, or something unique to the end-game maps. Perhaps they would have level 60 min. requirements so that only end-game players can use them or level requirements based on the mods/attributes.