Maps for end game isn't enough
" It would break my heart if PvP is end game. It would mean the cake is a lie. Follow thePOEcast.com ---The POE cast is a Path of Exile podcast
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A disgaea item world style would keep me playing for a loooooooooooong time without doubt.
What kept me playing d2 for so long was the charm system. Other than that, there's the obvious MedialXL that has sweet end-game. What feels good in other words, is the feeling of progression on a character rather than stagnation. Maps, sadly, do not give that feeling of progression at the moment. However, they give you a reason to get more powerful. Build of the week #9 - Breaking your face with style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_EcQDOUN9Y
IGN: Poltun | |
" Good Idea. Disgaeas Itemworld was really something. Maplevel would be the same as the Itemlevel. And rarity would increase difficulty. But I think it would be better if you would introduce a NPC that exchances Items for Maps with equal Level as the Item. I mean there might be a more ellegant way to solve this but It already goes in the right direction. _________________________________________________________ Instead of reading this I made a thread here > http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/50090 My second Idea would be an Arena, with stages, each stage monsterlevel and numer increases and every 5 stages there is a boss, and every 10 stages a bigger Boss (like merveil, brutus etc.) When you die, you just drop out, this allows the system to work for Hardcore as well. You could make ranking systems this way as well, and prizes. (like how many stages can you beat) To get into the arena I thought of a new currency Item, you could find to enter the stage. Or exchange some of the currency items that aren't used that often. or even make a tier based payment. like: 3 Alchemy Orbs to enter the arena or 10 Glassblowers Bauble or 40 Knowlegde Scrolls. Let me elaborate a bit more in this Spoilertext if you are interested.
Spoiler
So my Idea works like this.
A) You find arenatokens that you need to go into the Arena, or you can buy them for currency, or just go straight up with the current currency. (or maybe pay with maps) B) You have a NPC that lets you go into the arena, talk to him and pay with the Tokens/Currency however GGG thinks it would be the best. C)Start of with a few enemies that are below your Level, then each wave/Stage increase the Level by 1.
Spoiler
C+)You might also disable exp gain, and give EXP based upon how many waves you could beat.
D)Every 5 Waves/Stages a Yellow Boss is in the Wave (that might have a chance to drop tokens? just an Idea) Every 10 Waves you fight a Unique Boss (like in maps). E) When you die you drop out of the Arena and get payed in EXP and items. (you could introduce a pricesystem, so you won't get random drops but like questrewards Items)
Spoiler
E+) You might offer one Item that is identified (a good one) and a bunch of unidentified ones that might be better, so it's a bit gamble) Itemlevel is equal to the monsterlevel in the last wave
F) If you have Arenatokens as a new Currency, you might give a refund if you hit stage 10 (like you payed 10 Arenatokens to enter, and at stage 10 you get like 2 arenatokens back, on stage 20 you get 4, then 6 and so on.) G) Have like a Ladder that shows who reached what Stage/Wave H) Make a special Arena(event), either as a weekevent or ingame. Like you do with maps, for example survive X stages without using Flasks, or make Tag Team arena battles. I) Make arenas with traps and environmental things like, tar patches, fire patches, ice patches, explosive urns/barrels etc. J) Make a rare no monster Stage with just a chest and some loot in it. K) At stage 100 you get an Unique Item that's called "Champions [...]" To show off you beat the Arena in 100 Waves. Don't stop there just make more Waves, and maybe add a skillpoint as a price every 25 Waves from 100 (125 150 175 200 etc.) L) read spoiler for Arenatoken Ideas:
Spoiler
If you introduce Arenatokens as a new Currency then make them drop maybe only from bosses in Maps and Merciless(or whatever the last difficulty will be named after act3) and maybe a very small chance for high level rare mobs to drop them.
They should be easy to get but not so easy that you can endlessly far only the arena. Maps should always be as attractive. (That's why no EXP (only as a price) and no loot (only as price) in arena) So if people want to get higher stages in arena they need to train/farm maps (with higher levels than 69 of course) and at some point they can actually reach wave 50 to sustain their Arenatoken payment. Special Arena Stages should cost more Arenatokens and give some specials. Also Special Arenas won't give you any Arenatokens back. M) Alternative Prices in Arena: If you play a Special Arena, instead of EXP or Loot you can give alternative Prices. Like Refundspoints for the Passive Tree. or something like "Link all sockets on one Item" (this way you could actually get 6 linked items easier) Of course the price is based upon the difficulty. Linking all Sockets would be a price for a very hard arena map. Other prices could be:
Spoiler
>High Level Maps you might only get from the Arena
>Personalize an Item (like in D2 Act5) >as mentioned a Skillpoint (maybe just one as an Arena Quest) >direct alteration of items like currency items would do but without the randomization (like an Item will have only red sockets) Roundup: While posting this I kinda remembered where I got this Idea from, and it's Pokemon with the Poketower. If you played Emerald you know what I mean. I hope this helps (and I hope you might consider to implement something like that :D) Last edited by KenshiD on Sep 13, 2012, 8:32:04 AM
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" This sounds really fun!! Especially if it is coupled with ladder/ELO system. Forming a 4-6 man team with your mates competing against others - joy :) In my humble opinion irrelevant of the type of end game system implemented it needs to have strong PVP background for sustainability. Look at League of Legends and Dota, very successful games with in essences very simple yet well balanced idea/mechanic. Last edited by arctic7 on Sep 13, 2012, 7:12:49 AM
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what is interesting is that GGG has right now the room to create the "endless dungeon" that seem to be the most notable endgame feature required by ARPG's players... I've seen that asked by players in every game's forum I've journeyed upon. You have all the good tools to implement some original form of endless dungeon. and a mythical place like that will be a really suitable endgame for Wraeclast. ... nothing
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"I quote this because it's both the simplest and most engaging solution. Diablo 2 may have had a majorly imbalanced endgame, it was still interesting because it was prestigious. To the lowly noobs who couldn't even beat Uber Duriel, the dream of once being able to farm Torches is a pretty nice goal to work towards. It also gives a very clear grade of build viability: Can your build survive Uber Tristram? If yes, then it's good. Then there's only the question of how to prevent outgearing the endgame. There's a simple solution which WoW has embraced in its newest expansion: Speedrunning. Being able to kill the hardest boss in the game is pretty binary; eventually everyone can. But being able to kill the hardest boss the fastest, THAT is prestige. I don't get why people even suggest the endless dungeon. It was not interesting in Torchlight. It was not interested when it was called Maelstrom of Chaos. It won't become interesting. Last edited by 0nin on Sep 13, 2012, 8:02:57 AM
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" Serika, you hit the nail on the head with this post. Maps are just a nice added feature, and soemthing to throw a nice carrott there, but it can't just be the only thing that can sustain your character there. | |
" It can be if it isn't endless for the sake of being endless, but because it has meaning. Too little increase in difficulty, no ladder, constant reset back to lvl 1... all sorts of issues that can ruin an endless dungeon concept. But when done correctly by GGG; where players can control how difficult their gaming session gets, this type of system has a lot of potential. Besides, who says we can't mix things up? Have 8 stupendously difficult bosses (the ubers) set at level 25, 50, 75, 100, etc, of the endless dungeon. And everytime players creep up to the last boss GGG can add content. -Are you capable of reaching level 25? Sure then you can farm that boss over and over if you please. -Do you feel you have what it takes to venture on? By all means do so. Everytime you clear an endless dungeon level you also unlock it's waypoint. That way you can always keep on going at the difficulty you choose. We already have means to reset instances, so you can keep farming the level you can manage, without the need for a lot of development. Basically the entire endless dungeon does not require a lot of development, since we have most of the tools already. Last edited by Ferumbras on Sep 13, 2012, 8:14:13 AM
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1. The Endless Dungeon seems to be a really good idea. It seems to be easy to make and is something that is really fun.
2. Event-Bosses like Uber-Diablo also seem to be something that improves the endgame-experience. 3. PvP of course is something that could be part of a nice endgame-experience, I'm not sure if the tech allows this, but larger scale "warfare" would most likely draw also some PvP-sceptics into it. Since most PvE-Players understand tactics, but lack micromanagement, which is less important if the number of players is larger. 4. Of course endgame needs something that you could show others and be proud of it. Some stats, or a nice hat, or maybe pants :P | |
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My biggest issue I see right now is that end game maps actually totally undermine the existing content in game right now.
When you're a LVL 80 Shadow already destroying every single mob that exists in game, you're not going to want to go back to Act 1 and destroy Meriveil in 5 seconds to get sub-par loot. As of right now, the existing bosses/zones in game have no real replayability to it. This is a problem for 2 reasons, 1- You're going to blow through L 50 content when you're 30 levels beyond that difficulty. 2- It trivializes all bosses in game and just makes them not fun because you've out leveled them. This brings me back to my point, End Games maps are great for a lot of good reasons but will certainly dry me up content wise. A lot of what people have said in this thread has been really good. To get people out and fighting the existing content there needs to be randomized dungeons that can randomly spawn in zones. These dungeons need to be tiered and for lack of better term endless in scope and difficulty. These are all great ideas, I hope GGG listens and understand where we're coming from. |
