New 0.9.12 Cold crit witch build?

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goslaw3 wrote:

20% more dmg will do 20% more dmg

but with criticals its other story, first u have to count all ur critical nodes, les say its 400 together, then u have make this math 400*6, if ur spell have 6% chance to critical, then add the spell critical value

so u will have 400*6+6 and all this *100%

400*6+6 is 2406 *100% its 24,6 chance to critical strike

24,5 is a bit less its less than 1/4 chance for critical

lecs say uve got critical strike, so the base dmg value of criticl is 150% base dmg, u can earn this number by taking critical multiplier nodes


the thing is that first u have to have critical strike, then u can tanlk about damage otherwise its just dmg without crtitical


i hope its clear ;D

I know how criticals work. I know how to figure what my critical chance is (even if the character sheet didnt tell me). What I was asking was did more + crit% make more of a difference once your gem is leveled more and you have more over all crit%.

I was basically trying to avoid doing some math and making a little chart to find out at what ratio that +spell dam% is equal to or greater than + crit chance% to equal the same overall dps increase.

It seems that its just personal preference to how often you want to crit. Adding 5% spell dam is just minutely better than adding +20 crit chance. For all purposes might as well say they are the same.

As for crit multiplier, that 5% spell damage increase is almost exactly the same as adding 10% crit multiplier.

These ratios held true whether i calculated on the base 6% chance , or if you had 20% crit chance and were to add a passive or item giving 20% more crit chance. With 20%increased crit chance equating to roughly 1% over all chance to crit.

Im sure someone has posted this info at some point, but i've not seen it. So I answered my own question and now it is easier to decide what passives to pick. Wont waste my time on 15% crit chances if they arent leading to a much bigger one. Would rather pick up any 6% spell increase, or projectile increase instead. I dont need my crit chance super high, I already freeze everything with only an 18% chance currently at lvl 30.

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goslaw3 wrote:

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Nekrogoblin77 wrote:

As for crit multiplier, that 5% spell damage increase is almost exactly the same as adding 10% crit multiplier.

no, coz 5% more spell dmg is just 5 % more dmg, and 10% crt multi is 10% more dmg(but u have to have critical strike first)

umm... no. 10% crit multiplier is not 10%increased damage. Its 10% increased critical damage, that only aplies when you critical. They average out to be the same dps increase whether you took a 5% spell dam node, or 10% crit multipier node.

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goslaw3 wrote:

u have to realize that criticals are best wtchs weapon, some ppl say that 15% crt nodes arent worth and i think they are worth coz on high lvs/endgame u wont use vols protector coz u will get better armor. And for critical build witch all reasonably placed nodes in tree can give u 580% crt chance together, well 6 power charges can give u 300% which isnt enough , BUT, elemental dmg critical witch wont bother in power siphon and in end game maps u will get better armor than vols protector

anyway i dk about tactics coz i havent played at so high levels but i think its best if u can spam criticals all the time, its seems to be best weapon coz of second elemental dmg form so burn/shock/freeze

Thats your opinion that criticals are the best for witch. Im playing a shadow anyway. 15% crit nodes by themselves give less damage increase than taking a 6% spell/elem/proj increase node. Do the math. The only reason for taking them is when they are on the way to larger crit nodes that are worth taking.

Thats fine if you want every crit node on the tree, but you can get better dps not taking the few crappy ones and putting those points into normal spell damage increases. If im freezing everything with only a 21% crit chance now, why would i spend points traveling across the tree for crit%/multiplier nodes when i can take closer spell damage nodes and net more dps in the long run?

And i have no idea what your talking about voll protector and power charges. I know what they do but my post had nothing to do with that. Im not sure you realize whether you have 600% extra crit chance and a small amount of spell damage increase, its the same thing as having 350% extra crit chance and more spell damage. It all comes down to how often you want to crit for freeze/burn/shock.

I freeze more than enough at only 21% so again, why travel across the tree and use more points for less dps increase to get those extra crit nodes? My gear is only getting better as i level, and I get plenty extra crit% from that.
From reading your posts you admit you havent played at higher levels and you 'think its best to spam criticals'. So go play your witch and take every crit node. Thats up to you. But to take a 15% crit increase( thats not on the way to a 25% or higher) over any 5% or more spell dam increase doesnt make sense to me. Its less over all dps, but thats your choice.

Done with thread, quite frankly its difficult to read your posts with the amount of abbreviations, missing vowels, lack of punctuation, and txt talk. Good luck with your builds.

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goslaw3 wrote:

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Nekrogoblin77 wrote:

Adding 5% spell dam is just minutely better than adding +20 crit chance.

how its better? how have u counted that?

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Nekrogoblin77 wrote:

As for crit multiplier, that 5% spell damage increase is almost exactly the same as adding 10% crit multiplier.

bullshit man
u have for example 100dmg so increasing it by 5% will be 105

now with criticals, just from begining u have 150% crt multiplier base so its 150dmg!! with 10%more crt multi its 160

but ok ur right 105 and 160 is completly same thing

Ok I cant resist.

Your not realizing that the crit multiplier only affects the times you crit. Not every single attack. The rest of the time your not critting that multiplier means nothing. Example:

Heres random spell X, it does 100 damage with a 6% chance to critical, and your normal 150% crit multiplier. So on a crit your damage would be 150(100*1.5=150). After 100 casts this would be the damage:

Six casts would be criticals (150dam*6casts=900dam). The other 94 casts would be (100dam*94=9400dam). Add those together for 10,300 dam (900+9400=10,300dam).



Now lets take a 5% spell dam increase node. So new spell damage is 105 (100*1.05=105). Crit damage with same 150% multiplier would be 157.5dam(105dam*1.5multiplier=157.5) After 100 casts damage is:

Six casts would crit for 945dam(157.5dam*6casts=945dam).
The other 94 would be 9870dam (105dam*94casts=9870dam).
Add them up for a total of 10,815dam (945+9870=10,815).



Ok now we will take a 20% crit chance node instead of the 5% spell node. So add 20% chance to our base of 6% is 7.2% (0.06*1.2=7.2). We will round to 7%. So now we have a 7% chance to crit. Heres the damage:

Seven casts would crit for 1,050dam (150dam*7casts=1050)
The other 93 would be 9,300dam (100dam*93casts=9300). Add them up and you get 10,350dam (1050+9300=10350).



Last example, this time we are taking 10% crit multiplier node instead of the crit chance or spell damage. So new crit multiplier would be 160% (1.50+.10=1.60). And the new damage when we crit would be 160dam (100*1.6=160). Heres the example for damage:

Six casts would crit for 960dam(160dam*6casts=960dam).
The other 94 would be 9400dam (100dam*94casts=9400dam).
Add them up and you get 10,360dam. (960+9400=10360dam).



In conclusion:
Base spell over 100 casts = 10,300 dam.
5% spell dam increase node = 10,815 dam.
20% crit chance increase node = 10,350 dam.
10% crit dam multiplier node = 10,360 dam.

Now tell me why you would take more crit chance or crit multiplier nodes than you need? Once you boost your chance to crit up to about 20% you are casting fast enough that you are freeze/burn/shocking just about everything already.

So like i said most spell dam increase nodes are 6% even, so why would you ever take a 15% or 20% crit chance node unless it was on the way to one of the higher nodes? Just grabbing doom cast, the few crit chance nodes in the shadow area, and maybe one or two more, plus mods on your weapons/armour will most likely be plenty to crit and apply status effects. Besides you can always pop a few diamond flasks if you really need a crit at a certain time.

There you go, now you can make your choice on how you do your build. The way you keep arguing your case is as if you are getting criticals on every cast, which you wont. Unless you are going to constantly pop diamond flasks, which makes crit chance nodes even less desireable, but multiplier and spell damage increase ones more desireable. Regardless the more damage you have as base means the more you get when you add a multiplier.

Really done now, good luck.

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goslaw3 wrote:

the idea of critical witch is to make critical all the time i can also add nothing to it ;]
rest later , iam drunk...

so you probaby should focus on critical damage and casting speed; this way, running 5 diamond flasks with improved recovery, you will crit almost everytime

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goslaw3 wrote:

lol maybe hes right? ;D anyway thx for ur work man i wil try make some lv 90 build later

anyway we should pick up all nodes with 5% more dmg or more and crt/multi with more than 20% i guess. something like this?

Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAQMABaqbVRrryz0hedp6Muq57D94XJ4_nl9NT0NZfV-buYhgRwTJYzq_yO3XuXiWHGVq4vYHPfU5uo_9mG3TvSG7Vs3KZmPIOTABnMVEzcOVX_-wphHsy0EdEUlHOJwHJsqWTTO-q3cAFgmpvwdiDTEnnD23mzcsE_JWtAoPW_BhaxSlYrN_CGLA5N2uFd6IRTFO9yMguZBpUyV_qsgejFFRoz0qSHXAAL82JO3gqLj1f-2xKGCj2ZuoEpktYbdlEXK1m_AqxWfuCerlY9BU_ovirlYlF__4kxucfIbKGRuik1yCqXRBVvIJOzUY6yuCqinEBExkw5hUqmRmxzXb2zMiuMSzJ3lcC6Lo7dl4SJ908hy4LIIkzJsEGsfzXb20Hmd7aNoZVJT2DWd2zV-ZIRr4f4OIsqo9LksV66QiSSC5Fac=

Thats not too bad. I was just trying to figure out what your aiming for with your build as to why you wanted massive critical chance. If your looking to freeze, you dont need a super high crit chance to still be able to freeze. Thats why i think its a waste to overdue it at the expense of over all dps.
If your trying to go for very high damage, then you need a combination of the better crit chance/multipliers and damage nodes.

As far as cast speed goes, a 3% increase is less dps increase than a 5% dam node. Speed helps for slower spells so you have more chances to crit, but it also means you spend can end up spending more mana since your casting the spell alot more. Where you could cast it less and for more damage, and save some mana. All depends on the cast speed of the spell to start. I find freezing pulse to be fairly quick to begin with.


Here is the build im currently playing.



The reason for the fire damage nodes is because i will be using a quality Cold to Fire gem on freezing pulse. So basically it then allows me to pick up 48% increased damage with only 5 nodes used, and some extra fire resist. So not only do I freeze everything, it also burns. That equates to about 10 20% crit chance nodes for the same dps to give you an idea. I also take the Lord of the Dead node because I started as shadow, so it was only one node cost to get to the other side of witch area instead of going up top. The extra skele and zombie not bad anyway. If you start witch of course you can ignore that passive.

After I get everything on there, i may get the 3 cast speed increases over by the throatseeker node, or get the Blaze node in the shadow area, for more damage and chance to ignite. Depends on how my mana situation is since you can run it down quick casting really fast.

Im already over 25% crit chance with my build so far and gear, and im not done with my tree yet. So I prefer to boost my damage. But thats whats so great about the passive tree. You dont have to do the same exact build to get the same results. Hope this helps.