Chromatic orbs are bullshit.

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ggnorekthx wrote:

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bluesqq wrote:

Sometimes you have to work hard for things you want.
Sometimes things don't always come the easy way.
Maybe they want you to have a hard time perfecting a character.
Maybe they don't want you to be able to get everything first try.
Maybe they want us to spend months to get 1 simple thing.

maybe..




Anyways RNG is RNG.. But you have to accept the fact a person cant tell a computer how to choose random numbers.. a person can only give the computer so many options so it APPEARS to be random.

I sold a guy 1,000 chromatics So he could get 4 off colors, the day before he claimed to of used 2,000 and not get it. After I sold him my 1,000 it only took 2 chromatics to get his 4 off colors. So..?

Working hard is what I do in real life. I work hard so I can play video games and... have fun.

Now difficulty and challenge can absolutely be fun. The OP, and many of us, agree that the current bias is too strong. We don't want Shavronne's to roll RRRRRR and GGGRRR every other chromatic. We want the ability to roll a character, say Evasion-based melee, and not be totally screwed on gear by default. There's a big difference.

You know the bias exists
You choose to not switch to hybrid gear for easier access
You have the balls to complain about it

There are a lot of people who paid good money for supporter packs because the game was marketed as a hardcore experience. You say that you work in real life and want to play game to have fun. How is it not fun to finally get what you wanted after a tough ride?

Colour bias isnt a problem because on one hand the game makes it possible for you to get any combination on any item and second provides you an alternative. The fact that you choose not to use it and simply ignore the existence of AR/ES, AR/ER, ER/ES chests isnt the games fault since its more than possible to roll an incredible item that in some cases is even better than a pure chest piece. There are enough examples of people running hybrid chests and still reaching 9000 ES.

That argument makes you look so out of place. Why would anyone give a shit if you work hard and balance the game around that? Why dont you just put up with different games then? I really dont get the logic of some people.

There is a big difference. There are people who have spent 1000's of chromatics and have finally gotten ttheir offcolours .I've burned over 2000 chromatics to get my usable 5 off color shavs. I am not trying to retain superiority or anything, but people should have to work equally as hard to perfectheir build. I agree that its very difficult to hit the off colors, but as someone who has defied the odds/bias or whatever you want to call it, i feel it is goodthe way it is. There are many people who have off colored their armor, so this just means that its not nearly impossible and many have already done it. Just because you're having trouble with it doesn't mean you have the right to go whine on forums and expect a big change to make your life easier. All of us have been through the struggle, and some of us have succeeded, and some of us have failed. Just keep trying instead of hoping it becomes easier.

Rant over, feel free to bash me in any which way you enjoy. I worked hard and got lucky and now I'm enjoyingy my optimized build.

While I believe the bias can be slightly less severe, adding my voice to the choir will not accomplish anything.

Instead I am going to argue in favor of color bias: it is an important mechanic to lend a degree of predictability when crafting gear. Socket configuration is the most important component of a build, and a build is defined entirely by its choice of itemization (the passive tree serving mostly to minimize opportunity costs associated with doing so). You can pick an item of a base type with sufficient sockets and links, and know that within a certain number of chromatic orbs you will have likely attained the desired color combinations. If you skew socket bias too far towards being unbiased, then we lose that degree of predictability, and can no longer choose a base item type to best accommodate our color demands. If we went purely unbiased, then we would have true random color combinations, which are far less likely to produce the specific colors you want or need. This seems significant to me, considering how much people complain about too much RNG in crafting. Just a few things to consider.

On another note, some interesting figures:
Vaal Regalia (ES) has 175 base ES, Saintly Chainmail (AR/ES) has 98 base ES, and Carnal Armour (EV/ES) has 105 base ES. These are the highest base ES values found on chest pieces of the three attribute aligned chest types that can have ES.

Vaal Regalia is capable of providing at most 1,059 local ES at 20% quality, with max rolls in the Resplendent (+145), Unconquerable (+120%), and Seraphim's (+56%) suffixes.

Saintly Chainmail is capable of providing at most 804 local ES at 20% quality, with max rolls in the Resplendent (+145), Interpolated (+120%), and Seraphim's (+56%) suffixes.

Carnal Armour is capable of providing at most 828 local ES at 20% quality, with max rolls in the Resplendent (+145), Unreal (+120%), and Hummingbird's suffixes (+56%).

While these are max rolls in the highest ilvl mods (which you will never see, ever), it still serves to illuminate one important thing: all three attribute aligned ES chest types have access to the same potential values of modifiers, and a single Resplendent (136-145), Incandescent (107-135), or even Scintilating (73-106) will account for more base ES than the difference between the inherent ES values of an ES piece and an ES hybrid piece.

So long as this is true, nothing is stopping you from using hybrid armour to maintain a sufficient ES value while accommodating your socket layout until you can hit the lottery and roll four off colors on a pure ES chest.

All of that said, I still agree that the bias can and should be lessened slightly, but I am also saying that it shouldn't be lessened too much, nor is it as necessary as people like to claim.

I used my phone on the bus to write my previous remark: I will polish it up.

While I agree that the colour bias is strong, I also believe that you have to work hard for your build to properly work. In most cases you have to give up 1 or the other. You can get your defence of choice (armor/es/evasion), and NOT have an easy time rolling the colours, OR you can get the colours of your choice and have defences that are not optimal for your build. That is the general tradeoff, and if we eliminate that aspect of character-building, the game becomes too easy. It's like complaining about why chaos orbs and exalted orbs have a chance to roll shit stats. What should they do, invent an improved exalted orb that has a higher chance of getting the roll you want? nty.

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CanHasPants wrote:

So long as this is true, nothing is stopping you from using hybrid armour to maintain a sufficient ES value while accommodating your socket layout until you can hit the lottery and roll four off colors on a pure ES chest.

This is deceptive.

Hybrid armour pieces have more prefixes available.

So for the poeple saying hybrids are "easier to color" -- sure, that's true. But they are harder to roll...

In actuality it's extremely rare to see hybrids with above 600 ES, wheras vaal regs with 800 ES are fairly common, with 850+ not that unheard of, and the select few walking around with near perfect or perfect 950 - 1050 vaal regs.

So it's not just "straight easier" to have a hybrid piece.

They are harder to roll, and result in less ES for your efforts.

"

This is deceptive.

Hybrid armour pieces have more prefixes available.

So for the poeple saying hybrids are "easier to color" -- sure, that's true. But they are harder to roll...

In actuality it's extremely rare to see hybrids with above 600 ES, wheras vaal regs with 800 ES are fairly common, with 850+ not that unheard of, and the select few walking around with near perfect or perfect 950 - 1050 vaal regs.

So it's not just "straight easier" to have a hybrid piece.

They are harder to roll, and result in less ES for your efforts.

Which just goes to prove that that is another tradeoff. Easier time rolling colours for the difficulty of rolling good mods or having an easier time with mods and trouble with colours. It shouldn't be easy to get exactly what you want.

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Dinivus wrote:

Which just goes to prove that that is another tradeoff. Easier time rolling colours for the difficulty of rolling good mods or having an easier time with mods and trouble with colours. It shouldn't be easy to get exactly what you want.

....unless what you want is cookie cutter colors, then it's pretty easy....

which is the entire purpose of this thread. off-colors are not inherently "more powerful" than other colorings.

they're just colors - a barrier to making builds work that are anything except cookie cutter.

eg. "caster" colors on an ES chest. are caster colors on an ES chest conducive to "weak" builds because they are easier to color?

most of the difficulty in crafting comes from more difficult = BETTER

eg, 6L > 5L. 6L is much harder than 5L, but it is much more powerful. Off-colors are not at all similar.

How can you say that colours and links are not similar? They DIRECTLY go hand in hand. What's the point in having 6l if none of the colours are what you want? Might as well be 6s. Your argument makes no sense saying that the colour of your sockets has no "inherent" power.

Edit: This is going extremely off topic. I will just stop this debate unless you wish to continue through PM.

Main point: Colours are extremely important in making a build, and so are defences. You have to choose one, or work hard for both.

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Dinivus wrote:

How can you say that colours and links are not similar? They DIRECTLY go hand in hand. What's the point in having 6l if none of the colours are what you want? Might as well be 6s. Your argument makes no sense saying that the colour of your sockets has no "inherent" power.

Edit: This is going extremely off topic. I will just stop this debate unless you wish to continue through PM.

Main point: Colours are extremely important in making a build, and so are defences. You have to choose one, or work hard for both.

1) I made this topic, and I'm farily certain we are decidedly on-topic.

2) My point was that more links is better. More off-colors is not, so extreme difficulty there is not justified.

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tikitaki wrote:

Spoiler

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CanHasPants wrote:

So long as this is true, nothing is stopping you from using hybrid armour to maintain a sufficient ES value while accommodating your socket layout until you can hit the lottery and roll four off colors on a pure ES chest.

This is deceptive.

Hybrid armour pieces have more prefixes available.

So for the poeple saying hybrids are "easier to color" -- sure, that's true. But they are harder to roll...

In actuality it's extremely rare to see hybrids with above 600 ES, wheras vaal regs with 800 ES are fairly common, with 850+ not that unheard of, and the select few walking around with near perfect or perfect 950 - 1050 vaal regs.

So it's not just "straight easier" to have a hybrid piece.

They are harder to roll, and result in less ES for your efforts.

Indeed, pure chest pieces have only six prefix (41 possible combinations of one to three prefix) while hybrid chests have seven (63 possible combinations of one to three prefix). But what does that mean?

Pure: 41 possible combinations, of which...
...16 combinations can have a flat ES mod (39% chance)
...9 combinations can have a flat ES and an increased ES mod (21.9% chance)
...1 combination can have a flat ES and both increased ES mods (2.4% chance)

Hybrid: 63 possible combinations, of which...
...22 combinations can have a flat ES mod (34.9% chance)
...11 combinations can have a flat ES and an increased ES mod (17.4% chance)
...1 combination can have a flat ES and both increased ES mods (1.5% chance)

My point is that it is possible to maintain comparable ES values with a hybrid ES chest piece; I did not mention that they also come with different opportunity costs, which must be compensated for elsewhere (in this case, a few extra ES passives, more intelligence, dropping a dps aura for discipline, etc...) If those opportunity costs cannot be compensated for, then you are attempting to do too much with your build at once and are losing flexibility as consequence. Inflexible builds are, well, inflexible.

These constraints are part of what make itemization meaningful in Path of Exile, and as I said in my previous post, socket color bias is actually good for you because it lends predictability in your pre-build planning of itemization choices. It doesn't arbitrarily restrict builds from using skills, it allows that planning to be realized by cutting through the layers of RNG to enable the most fundamental part of a build's identity--its skill and support choices.

(EDIT: My maths may be irrelevant; I am assuming the system rolls affix types first, and then the range of affix names and values from within that type. I am not entirely sure if this is the case, or if the system rolls from among all possible affix names right at the start. Be that the case, I really could care less to extrapolate the possible combinations, but if somebody else would like to the information would indeed be handy ;D)