The pay to win Situation / PTW players

Play a lot
Sly or shady trading
RMT

pick one.

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Nephalim wrote:

Play a lot
Sly or shady trading
RMT
Stream, and have people overpay for your items.

pick one.

Felt one more was needed.

Ok, I only read half this thread, but to the people who say there is no way to get rich legitimately, then I hate to say it but you just don't get RNG... RNG is a vicious bitch who will stab you with stilettos while you are on the ground(that's a little dark, not sure where that came from lol).

My point is RNG will make some people RICH BEYOND RICH by lvl 10, and others will never get the same amount of wealth in drops with 5 chars to lvl 80.

Here's One personal example: I have pushed around several characters up to 60s 70s and never found an exalt on one of them. Then one day I roll a templar, first chest drops a Blessed Orb. He got his first exalt by lvl 10. Then got a second one at lvl 24 while farming western forest a bit since it was my first HC char. He also found more quality gems and chaos orbs than any of my characters. TBH this example still makes me worry loot drops are seeded by some value determined at character creation(to see such a nightmare, look up Asheron's Call's Wi Flag bug).

Basically if you think people can't get rich on their own then you need to understand how Random and more importantly how NOT RANDOM, random number generators are. Go learn just some basics and make your own RNG and run it a bunch, watch how often it tends to get stuck around certain values, how often it doesn't make sense, and HOW FREAKING LONG you have to run it for the percentages you laid out to actually even out. RNG is evil and it will cause many people to be poor over a VERY long play time while others will be rich in 5 minutes, there is no way around this without eliminating RNG all together.

Just like with desync, GGG is not pulling your chain, these things do work like this and there isn't really any way around that.

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Munion wrote:

(1) Go learn just some basics and make your own RNG and run it a bunch, watch how often it tends to get stuck around certain values, how often it doesn't make sense, and (2) HOW FREAKING LONG you have to run it for the percentages you laid out to actually even out. RNG is evil and it will cause many people to be poor over a VERY long play time while others will be rich in 5 minutes, (3) there is no way around this without eliminating RNG all together.

(1) indeed, but Path Of Exile's RNG isn't something basic you code at home for fun. at least I hope it isn't. GGG probably took a well-known generator and built around it. it's impossible to get "true random" in Computer Science - but it should be "random enough".
and what I mean by it, is that if you take a series of numbers generated by the RNG of sufficient length (say 2^32 numbers) - it doesn't converge. moreover, no continuous sub-series of it of length >1 converges.
what this means in translation from Math to English, is your next number is completely independent of number(s) you got previously. completely "random".
"random enough" means in a sense, that if you could actually keep this up to infinity - you'll get "true random".

(2) true. but you really can't call it "evil" (although everybody does that. including me) - random is random. the only question is what you do with it - and that brings me to

(3) RNG is only a black-box throwing numbers around. GGG's code framework decides what to do with those numbers - and that's a pretty huge decision.
my "QQ" - if you will - lies here: everything seems blindly tied to the black box. no rules. no "situational biasing".
"10" means "Exalted Orb", and if you didn't get "10" - sucks for you.
are you level 1 killing Hillock, or level 80 taking out Temple Piety? doesn't matter.
"10" = you win. "not 10" = no Exalt.

it doesn't have to be this way, and it really isn't in just about every other RNG-using game I know. notice the subtle difference: "RNG-using" not "RNG-based".

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K1kk0m4n wrote:

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Novalisk wrote:

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K1kk0m4n wrote:

Anyone seen those groups with WTS exalts for $ name?
Reporting option would cut those out.
Seen couple of them and then there is two or one random named players like intQijdl.
Pretty obvious whats the deal here :P

Sigh... if there was just a way to see who deals large ammount of exalts and put those accounts under surveillance :(

Of course there is, what makes you think GGG doesn't have them under surveillance?

Is this confirmed?

It's simple data mining and GGG has taken a firm stance against RMT (like how they got rid of trade/global spam).

It's very likely they're keeping the rich people under some sort of surveillance.

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johnKeys wrote:

(3) RNG is only a black-box throwing numbers around. GGG's code framework decides what to do with those numbers - and that's a pretty huge decision.
my "QQ" - if you will - lies here: everything seems blindly tied to the black box. no rules. no "situational biasing".
"10" means "Exalted Orb", and if you didn't get "10" - sucks for you.
are you level 1 killing Hillock, or level 80 taking out Temple Piety? doesn't matter.
"10" = you win. "not 10" = no Exalt.

it doesn't have to be this way, and it really isn't in just about every other RNG-using game I know. notice the subtle difference: "RNG-using" not "RNG-based".

I also agree that this is most likely where the "problem" is in PoE. They seem to leave the results truly random instead of skewing them one way or another based on some parameters. And that is just plain and simple a design decision. Good or bad, it's somewhere in between for most of us i think(for me at least), that's what GGG has gone with so far. I do agree with GGG on this to the extent that lots of other games skew a little too much.

I think reworking it would take a decent amount of time, just from a design perspective as balance would change so drastically that without character wipes you want to REALLY think it out before implementing into the live build. I also think it would probably be worth reworking, but there is also the desync issue requires lots of reworking if it will ever get fixed, plus all the newer content that needs to come to keep on schedule.

Finding dev time to fix implemented features is a pain, it really sucks to "go backwards" when there is still new content that needs to get in. but I'm sure they will get around to fixing things like this eventually. I think Desync may be a bigger issue for a lot of people. Neither of those issues bothers/affects me much tbh so I'm not biased on what gets done first. I would think reworking RNG/how drops are determined after the actual RNG would probably be simpler(especially code side) and take less time, but I don't know too much about how to fix their desync issues, so I can't accurately guesstimate that time at all lol. It seems like Desync is caused by several different things tho, so lots of things would need reworking.

It's all about trading

GGG should sell themselves the currency, slightly cheaper than any other shop
end of story. I guess they are not selling to RMT so...

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Universalis wrote:

GGG should sell themselves the currency, slightly cheaper than any other shop
end of story. I guess they are not selling to RMT so...

If they wanted the game to be P2W they would. They are against it and fighting the good fight which they will ultimately lose.

RNG is RNG. You stack IIR and IIQ and farm the crap out of Merc Catacombs, Lunaris and Docks. On my Standard character I spent about 4-6 hours a night for about 2 months just farming and found some really good items. I found this in Catacombs as well as an Astramentis and some other valuable Uniques:


These are some items that I traded for:

I have a bunch of other rares and Uniques that I have either found or traded for that I won't bother listing.

Now I've been playing Anarchy very casually, about 4-8 hours a week and haven't found anything too valuable.

So the bottom line is play time + IIR/IIQ + RNG + trading = good loot.