This is getting a bit ridiculous... Reflect Damage Bug from Patch 11.1

I'm gonna go ahead anyway

Lets say each sword is 250 max damage physical

So that a base of 500 max damage per swing ... I know a hit will never roll the max dmg range on both, but worst case scenario

Then theres 70% multiplier from cleave and 64% from multistrike

Lets say +400% physical increases from strength, passives, cleave and multistrike, belt, quest etc

537% crit damage

500 x 0.7 x 0.64 x 5 x 5.37 (I think should be 6.37 tho) --> 6014

6014 x 0.36 = 2165 physical reflected per swing

Now armor calculation

18k / 18K + 2165x12 = 18k / 44k = 40% reduction + 16% from charges = 56% reduction

0.44 damage taken x 2165 = 952 damage per attack

after 2 attacks thats 1904 hp already, and you have 2400 life


everything seems in order to be honest, ironically it could be the other way round .... maybe reflect was bugged before and its fixed now?

A few notes / tips

(1) A crit physical build is going to be super deadly because of the way armor works. RT builds shouldnt hurt given enough armor / hp because of no crits

(2) 4 endurance charges is not the max ... 7 with passive nodes and quest, and 9 with 2 unique kaom rings. I recommend 6 charges minimum on marauder.

(3) I think 18k armor with granite is weak. 30k minimum with granite on, imho, if you are running crit physical + reflect.

(4) And now another mini essay lol:

How much accuracy and crit chance you running? I doubt you have more than 1k accuracy and 25% crit chance ... thats an average of 75% chance to hit (down to 65% in higher level maps, depending on your clvl too) and 19% chance to crit. So in a volley of 6 hits, 1 is a crit and 3-4 are normal hits, and 1 is a miss. With 5xx% crit damage, thats 8xx-9xx% damage in 6 hits, vs 600% with RT. So thats +35-50% damage, at the expense of inconsistency (life leech / loh / other on hit effects / status effects / stunlock enemy) and the fact that with RT and even some low amount of armor and hp, reflect will not hurt because of the way armor is calculated in respect to physical dmg. An elemental crit for 500% of normal dmg would reflect 18% and then be reduced to 25% (if 75% res all), for 5x the amount of a non crit. Not so with armor. A physical crit can hurt 20x more than a non crit with 500+ cd, instead of 5x, essentially you can take anywhere between 100-300% extra dmg from elemental reflect compared to physical reflect. Is it worthed? I would run high attack speed (6+ aps), RT, some good elemental auras and supports - as much lightning as possible for shock with static blows if you want, life leech / loh (vaal pact if high enough dps to gain more than 20% hp / sec from leech) with warlords mark, blood rage, and life leech on items, and melee physical support to bump up the physical damage (50% more multiplier is nice :) )

(To make this more worthwile, you'd get a crit damage of 800%+, but then good luck with reflect :) - unless you can perma immortal call)

(EDIT: I calculated with same armor and damage roll but no crit, you would have taken 20 damage reflected instead of the 950ish on a crit. Now 950 / 5.37 = 176 / 20 = 8.8 = 8 - 9 times more reflect damage taken per hit basis per point of damage on a crit, because of the way armor works)

(5) Very interested about this enfeeble / map + monster mods business effecting reflect, where did you get this from?

I can't show you a dev post, but I'm 100% sure enfeeble and inc. monster dmg, from map or from a rare, effects reflect damage.

I play chars with a weak spot to reflect since CB.

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Balguez wrote:

I can't show you a dev post, but I'm 100% sure enfeeble and inc. monster dmg, from map or from a rare, effects reflect damage.

I play chars with a weak spot to reflect since CB.

then its simple

they patched the damage bug overnight, rares and champs were dealing tons more dmg. OP must have played when the bug was around, and should try again

its very strange that reflect be effected by those mods and enfeebel though, very very strange

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JahIthBerTirUmMalLumKoKoMal wrote:

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Balguez wrote:

I can't show you a dev post, but I'm 100% sure enfeeble and inc. monster dmg, from map or from a rare, effects reflect damage.

I play chars with a weak spot to reflect since CB.

then its simple

they patched the damage bug overnight, rares and champs were dealing tons more dmg. OP must have played when the bug was around, and should try again

its very strange that reflect be effected by those mods and enfeebel though, very very strange

Im op's brother, dmg on reflect is still outrageously abnormal.
Completely disregarding his stats and his reflect issues, I am 50/50 phy and ele with 10% Life leech, 6k es, 20% evs and 25% Dr with granite.. I am anal raping myself with reflect and it feels like my life leech got cut in 75%, my ele got converted to phy, I lose my Dr and my es and I always crit.
Thats how badly reflect hurts for me atm, there is no logical explanation besides its a big error that needs immediate attention.

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Tonyg87 wrote:

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JahIthBerTirUmMalLumKoKoMal wrote:

"

Balguez wrote:

I can't show you a dev post, but I'm 100% sure enfeeble and inc. monster dmg, from map or from a rare, effects reflect damage.

I play chars with a weak spot to reflect since CB.

then its simple

they patched the damage bug overnight, rares and champs were dealing tons more dmg. OP must have played when the bug was around, and should try again

its very strange that reflect be effected by those mods and enfeebel though, very very strange

Im op's brother, dmg on reflect is still outrageously abnormal.
Completely disregarding his stats and his reflect issues, I am 50/50 phy and ele with 10% Life leech, 6k es, 20% evs and 25% Dr with granite.. I am anal raping myself with reflect and it feels like my life leech got cut in 75%, my ele got converted to phy, I lose my Dr and my es and I always crit.
Thats how badly reflect hurts for me atm, there is no logical explanation besides its a big error that needs immediate attention.

could we get more specifics on what build you running? what skill you critting with? crit chance, crit damage, chance to hit, attack speed, and damage numbers on the weapons / equipment? how much armor / resists? anything else that might help?

As you can see, when i ran the calculation on your brother's toon, it seemed legit that he would hurt himself on double reflect with his stats and gear, assuming everything works as we are told it does.

I might suggest that after you collect a little info after .11.1c, that you open a post in bugs forum if this persists.

Since they just redid the internal model, I'm sure they're willing to stare at the code, if enough people insist that things have changed. A lot of people are doing more phys deeps now, though. Are you?

Power Siphon
67.6% Crit chance
600 crit multi
73% hit
483-857 phy
2.17 aps
9% Dmg reduce
17% Evs
25% Block
5805 Es
10% Life Leech
lvl 84
I always keep granite active for reflect.. so add 3k more armour
only 1/3 of my dmg is phy atm..and phy reflect is molesting me lawl

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Sodomee wrote:

This needs to be fixed ASAP. I am going to have to stop doing rare reflect maps until this is fixed because it is such a waste of EXP.

What are you talking about? Reflect isn't a "bug", it's a blood red flag that your build is unbalanced. What's ridiculous is expecting to barrel through Merciless with over 500% increased crit damage, heedless to the pitfalls of dishing out more spike damage than you can handle yourself.

Your reflect deaths are literally self-inflicted. If you aren't using your weapon swap slots for storing drops, now would be a good time to develop an alternative attack strategy.

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RogueMage wrote:

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Sodomee wrote:

This needs to be fixed ASAP. I am going to have to stop doing rare reflect maps until this is fixed because it is such a waste of EXP.

What are you talking about? Reflect isn't a "bug", it's a blood red flag that your build is unbalanced. What's ridiculous is expecting to barrel through Merciless with over 500% increased crit damage, heedless to the pitfalls of dishing out more spike damage than you can handle yourself.

Your reflect deaths are literally self-inflicted. If you aren't using your weapon swap slots for storing drops, now would be a good time to develop an alternative attack strategy.

You clearly don't understand what this thread is about AT ALL, why bother posting if you didn't read?

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Tonyg87 wrote:

You clearly don't understand what this thread is about AT ALL, why bother posting if you didn't read?

Right, why bother pointing out the obvious when I could've simply posted a link to this thread:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/439554