Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

"

GhostlightX wrote:

I do NOT see why you cannot simply give players the option for pure FFA or pure instanced then EVERYONE is happy. There is no excuse not to do this, and not doing seems like stubborness that will eventually explode in your faces.

Yep.

"

GhostlightX wrote:

In refusing to add the option and keeping with the timer-based FFA system, I strongly believe you will achieve one thing only: kill open multiplayer for most players. This will result in POE being a single-player or friends-only game. This will absolutely kill the lifespan of the game

Right again. And even those players who prefer FFA, if they can't see the truth of this, they are either blind or don't care. FFA only WILL hurt the game in terms of retaining players.

"

GhostlightX wrote:

As a final thought, the player who most benefits from FFA loot s the player contributing LEAST to the part. They are instead positioning themselves for the loot drops and focused on that. It is WRONG to reward the player who contributes the least.

And you're 3 for 3.

"

The best suggestion I've heard is this. It remains on a timer. But, no one can see the item sans the person its allocated to, until the timer runs out. This removes "hawking". Fixes, the loot covering the floor, temporarily. Ans means you have better odds grabbing what you want since theres a smaller chance of mis click

Though I heavily disagree with FFA, this idea seems worthwhile.

But actually its such a massive workaround of the FFA loot that its basically an instanced lootsystem.

Also your suggested system would be pretty weird. You kill a monster and get your items and some time later additional items apear? Strange, isnt it?

In my opinion loot tension is a thing you absolutly have to despise, there is no way why this can be tolerated in a game.

As I already said in other posts:
FFA has its Cons and Pros and its advantages are undenyable, but still the Cons OUTWEIGHT the Pros >BY FAR<.


There have been mentioned a lot of arguements but I would like to point out 1 particular:
FFA loot makes scanning items very difficult and tedious. In my opionion there are a lot of desireable white items and in order to get them you have to come over the timer AND the masses of loot.

You might say its an advantage that other player can pick up the loot "you would have gotten" but is this really the right incentive? To play in a party to get items other people would leave on the ground? And even if, whats the overall gain of this? Inflating the economy? (For instance people tend to leave tripple colour items on the ground, and I pick them up. Its an advantage for me, but not an advantage for the game)

If everybody has his own items he can chose from its fine and I also think that getting somethig valueable is more "special".

When you play in a party you get only "disappointments" because 5/6 of all items you see you dont get.

Nah, the longer I think about it the more angry I get and I think I will boykott FFA loot ingame. Fortunatly, I am not a big groupplayer anyway, but if FFA comes in addition there is no reason to play in a random party. Maybe do a difficult boss, but thats it.

Farming in a public party = horror
Also because most people tend to be very "casual" and dont know what to do and where to go and heading in wrong or different directions(for no reason!). And then those players zerg and try to steal my loot, while not contributing to killing mobs, lol

I really think GGG did an incredible great job with most "unusual" game mechanics, but FFA-loot definitly is a mistake. I can guarantee you, its just obvious.


PS.:

I try to view FFA in a best and a worst case szenario and this is what comes out:

Best:
I will manage to adapt to it and accept it.

Worst:
I will hate it and compltly abandon public parties

So: There is no positive aspect either way I see it. No gain, no win, just downsides. And I guess this applies to most player.

Some will "be ok" with it and others will hate it. Nobody will go "HEUHEUHEU, I am so Cutthroat, the lootsystem is awesome, I will never play solo again".


Really, what is the mainpoint to have FFA loot? Can somebody explain it? I did not get it, even if I tried as hard as I could.

Nasabot: It isn't weird to you that in instanced, things drop that you cannot see? I find that incredibly odd. As Dale said, "What, are you playing together, but in parallel universes"?

I love loot tension. I do not despise it.

You say you're disappointed that 5/6s of the items you see you don't get. But, as you said, you can grab things you don't want, which isn't the case with Instanced loot. You will ONLY get 1/6. Further, that's like saying you would prefer to bury your head in the sand. The same amount is dropping, but because someone else got a unique, that makes you feel disappointed? Really? Can you not be happy for that other player?

It is not a mistake, and it is only obvious to those who want to have it otherwise. Please stop saying things like they are an all around truth. Some people like it, some don't. This does not mean it's a mistake.

If GGG does not implement either something like 4-10 second timers, or my instanced while timer runs -> FFA, I would suggest they create a league that is quarantined from the rest of the game. No race prizes can be sent there, unless they were in that league. You cannot die with your prizes in HC to send them to SC. There is no way to get to this league, unless you start here.

This will effectively not make an instanced league part of the overall game, and is merely a side attraction for those who want it. GGG can merely patch it like the rest, but pay no attention to it. This way, everyone has what they want. GGG's ideas for the game remain intact, and you guys get your league.

After watching the topics about FFA for some time, I want to say something about it myself.

First - seeing all the drops is really nice in a game with barter economy. Why run around and ask in the trade channel, when you can see the nice rare you want drop to one of your party members. You know - you can just ask them for it! Maybe they will even give it to you free, cause you are fighting together afterall!

Everyone opposed to FFA loot seems to allways expect the worst in everyone else. Amazing - are you so greedy yourself. If you meet/party up with someone, go by the theme "Hope for the best, expect the worst." What can even happen? You miss out on a rare/unique/6L or some valuable orbs? No big deal! If you cannot handle that in a video game, what can i say...

And one more thing - almost 300 sides in this topic alone? Seems like alot of people are concerned. Well, you wouldn't steal eachothers loot, right? Just party up all you guys and girls!

"

Zombie_Raptor wrote:

And to people comparing it to instanced loot in D3 saying that its better, Well i just find that freaking hilarious.

Whats hilarious about it? Its a different playstyle so what? Do you also laugh at people who play cutthroat and hardcore (assuming your not into that). I don't like FFA one bit but I'm not going to laugh at those who do.

"

lysar42 wrote:

First - seeing all the drops is really nice in a game with barter economy. Why run around and ask in the trade channel, when you can see the nice rare you want drop to one of your party members. You know - you can just ask them for it! Maybe they will even give it to you free, cause you are fighting together afterall!

Do you get many identified rare drops?

Playing with someone who asks "is it good for me?" for every rare that drops is just soo annoying, especially because 99.9% of them are trash.

"

lysar42 wrote:

Everyone opposed to FFA loot seems to allways expect the worst in everyone else. Amazing - are you so greedy yourself. If you meet/party up with someone, go by the theme "Hope for the best, expect the worst." What can even happen? You miss out on a rare/unique/6L or some valuable orbs? No big deal! If you cannot handle that in a video game, what can i say...

If you give people an incentive to behave in a bad way, then people will.
Telling us to suck it up doesn't help when it's so easy to sovle the problem for real.

"

lysar42 wrote:

After watching the topics about FFA for some time, I want to say something about it myself.

First - seeing all the drops is really nice in a game with barter economy. Why run around and ask in the trade channel, when you can see the nice rare you want drop to one of your party members. You know - you can just ask them for it! Maybe they will even give it to you free, cause you are fighting together afterall!

This isn't really about seeing drops. There could just as easily be a non competitive system where you CAN see all of the drops. Stopping to ask for items all of the time sounds annoying.

"

lysar42 wrote:

Everyone opposed to FFA loot seems to allways expect the worst in everyone else. Amazing - are you so greedy yourself. If you meet/party up with someone, go by the theme "Hope for the best, expect the worst." What can even happen? You miss out on a rare/unique/6L or some valuable orbs? No big deal! If you cannot handle that in a video game, what can i say...

You obviously enjoy FFA so your playstyle is different and you don't see our side, thats ok but don't act like we are insane. I am playing a video game with strangers over the internet and in a public game these are people that I just met and don't know me at all. If a very valuable item drops (for whatever that means to them) you expect me to believe that they will normally hand it over to me? Why would I expect that of them? I am a generous fellow and I barely expect that of myself. Missing out on great items is a negative experience for us, its unfun. If its not for you then great but don't expect us to enjoy it if we don't. This is a video game that we want to have fun in if you cannot handle that idea then what can I say...

"

lysar42 wrote:

And one more thing - almost 300 sides in this topic alone? Seems like alot of people are concerned. Well, you wouldn't steal eachothers loot, right? Just party up all you guys and girls!

Partying with friends is all well and good but it doesn't fix the issues of people who don't like FFA. Public games are still bad. The loot tension is still annoying and distracting.

Well I am a huge traditionalist when it comes to gaming, however one thing that really drives me crazy is the idea of someone telling me "what is fun". I prefer FFA loot, because it adds to the excitement, however I completely disagree with forcing others into experiencing a mechanic that I deem to be fun, when it is so easy to implement a compromise. There is absolutely, zero, zilch, nada reason not to put in an option upon party creation that makes the group loot FFA or Designated. People who enjoy FFA can join FFA groups, people who enjoy Designated can join Designated groups.

Not giving that option is really the equivalent of saying "Well these players enjoying hardcore really enjoy it, so instead of having default league we are now forcing everyone into hardcore"

It really is that silly...and holding on to that tradition will always create controversy and a rift in the community...its not worth it, let people enjoy the loot thats dropping the way they want to enjoy it...

"

Xyre wrote:

Well I am a huge traditionalist when it comes to gaming, however one thing that really drives me crazy is the idea of someone telling me "what is fun". I prefer FFA loot, because it adds to the excitement, however I completely disagree with forcing others into experiencing a mechanic that I deem to be fun, when it is so easy to implement a compromise. There is absolutely, zero, zilch, nada reason not to put in an option upon party creation that makes the group loot FFA or Designated. People who enjoy FFA can join FFA groups, people who enjoy Designated can join Designated groups.

Not giving that option is really the equivalent of saying "Well these players enjoying hardcore really enjoy it, so instead of having default league we are now forcing everyone into hardcore"

It really is that silly...and holding on to that tradition will always create controversy and a rift in the community...its not worth it, let people enjoy the loot thats dropping the way they want to enjoy it...

very well said. couldn't have said it better myself.

"

Xyre wrote:

Well I am a huge traditionalist when it comes to gaming, however one thing that really drives me crazy is the idea of someone telling me "what is fun". I prefer FFA loot, because it adds to the excitement, however I completely disagree with forcing others into experiencing a mechanic that I deem to be fun, when it is so easy to implement a compromise. There is absolutely, zero, zilch, nada reason not to put in an option upon party creation that makes the group loot FFA or Designated. People who enjoy FFA can join FFA groups, people who enjoy Designated can join Designated groups.

Not giving that option is really the equivalent of saying "Well these players enjoying hardcore really enjoy it, so instead of having default league we are now forcing everyone into hardcore"

It really is that silly...and holding on to that tradition will always create controversy and a rift in the community...its not worth it, let people enjoy the loot thats dropping the way they want to enjoy it...

+1
If done right FFA will always have a role in the game just like hardcore will always have a role.