Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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tropane wrote:

You really feel they MUST change to instanced loot because YOU think they game wont survive if left unchanged? And what about XP loss on death? I'm pretty sure thats not fun? Should be removed aswell just to cater to the 'casual'?

I'm not a hardcore player by any means, but i believe in GGG's vision, and i'm enjoying myself. And i'm pretty sure you're enjoying yourself aswell.

False equivalent - adding 5 seconds to the base timer is not the same as removing the death penalty

XP loss is a consequence for poor play or a bad build. Most players want the game to be harder because a challenge is fun. The current short timer system favors players who focus on loot over team work, it is not fun but frustrating.

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wrathmar wrote:

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tropane wrote:

You really feel they MUST change to instanced loot because YOU think they game wont survive if left unchanged? And what about XP loss on death? I'm pretty sure thats not fun? Should be removed aswell just to cater to the 'casual'?

I'm not a hardcore player by any means, but i believe in GGG's vision, and i'm enjoying myself. And i'm pretty sure you're enjoying yourself aswell.

False equivalent - adding 5 seconds to the base timer is not the same as removing the death penalty

XP loss is a consequence for poor play or a bad build. Most players want the game to be harder because a challenge is fun. The current short timer system favors players who focus on loot over team work, it is not fun but frustrating.

Thanks, i missed to point that out entirely.
We may not agree on some things but you do bring up good points sometimes :)

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Dinin wrote:

Its amazing to me that most of the pro-ffa crowd have stated that they completely avoid "loot tension" by mostly playing in private games and don't even realize it. Why avoid it if its not a great system? If you really like it you should never be playing solo or in a private group.

The loot tension is still there if you play with friends and thats when its most fun.
I remeber playing d2 with my fiends when i was a kid, when a ring droped everybody ruched to get it LIKE CRAZY.
If the person that got it dident need it he gave it so somone else.
And thinking back i realy think leveling up with my friends would have been half as fun or REALY boring with instanced loot.

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Planetsurvival wrote:

Well if they are sustained on the "D2 2.0" narrow demographic group, nothing.

The narrow demographic group of d2 is still playing d2, this is not d2

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Zombie_Raptor wrote:

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Dinin wrote:

Its amazing to me that most of the pro-ffa crowd have stated that they completely avoid "loot tension" by mostly playing in private games and don't even realize it. Why avoid it if its not a great system? If you really like it you should never be playing solo or in a private group.

The loot tension is still there if you play with friends and thats when its most fun.
I remeber playing d2 with my fiends when i was a kid, when a ring droped everybody ruched to get it LIKE CRAZY.
If the person that got it dident need it he gave it so somone else.
And thinking back i realy think leveling up with my friends would have been half as fun or REALY boring with instanced loot.

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Planetsurvival wrote:

Well if they are sustained on the "D2 2.0" narrow demographic group, nothing.

The narrow demographic group of d2 is still playing d2, this is not d2

First of all you mention "Friends playing together", we are discussing "Public party with strangers" mostly so those sentences about "Friends playing together" is kinda not even meaning anything in this context.
I played using instanced looting in Torchlight 2 with a friend, i had more fun then i had when i played a game with that friend in an FFA loot system.

And yes, this feels like, plays like, looks like "D2 2.0".
Even down to the flaws at times, which in this case is the Enforced FFA loot system.

And also, incase you havent read alot of the posts recently.
The very thing that is making the game *unfun* and annoying is the FFA loot system for some of us and that is the very exact points you bring up in your post, the thrill of rushing to loot.
Youd be right at home in the cutthroat league :)

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wrathmar wrote:

XP loss is a consequence for poor play or a bad build. Most players want the game to be harder because a challenge is fun. The current short timer system favors players who focus on loot over team work, it is not fun but frustrating.

You and me like the death penalty because it adds excitement and suspense. But for some its also not fun and frustrating.

My point was that its impossible to cater to everyone. You wouldnt like to see the death penalty removed because it adds suspense, i wouldnt like to see the FFA loot removed because it adds suspense. Why remove FFA loot and not the death penalty if its about catering to as much people as possible?


We should trust GGG to make the right decision and allow them to make the game THEY envision.

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tropane wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

XP loss is a consequence for poor play or a bad build. Most players want the game to be harder because a challenge is fun. The current short timer system favors players who focus on loot over team work, it is not fun but frustrating.

You and me like the death penalty because it adds excitement and suspense. But for some its also not fun and frustrating.

My point was that its impossible to cater to everyone. You wouldnt like to see the death penalty removed because it adds suspense, i wouldnt like to see the FFA loot removed because it adds suspense. Why remove FFA loot and not the death penalty if its about catering to as much people as possible?


We should trust GGG to make the right decision and allow them to make the game THEY envision.

How is loot stealing adding to *suspense*?
Now that is the question, and if some people think so why cant such people have their own league?

Now Death penalty is the games way of saying "you need to improve your gaming skills".
While loosing a loot item because one plays a ranged character says "melee is going to steal the loot mostly and leave nothing valuable left."

Notice how one thing = "Gaming skill".
And the other = "Griefing".

Also take note at how "Death penalty" only affects the player.
And take note how "Griefing" makes all people in the party, except the player annoyed.

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tropane wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

XP loss is a consequence for poor play or a bad build. Most players want the game to be harder because a challenge is fun. The current short timer system favors players who focus on loot over team work, it is not fun but frustrating.

You and me like the death penalty because it adds excitement and suspense. But for some its also not fun and frustrating.

My point was that its impossible to cater to everyone. You wouldnt like to see the death penalty removed because it adds suspense, i wouldnt like to see the FFA loot removed because it adds suspense. Why remove FFA loot and not the death penalty if its about catering to as much people as possible?


We should trust GGG to make the right decision and allow them to make the game THEY envision.

I want co-op play to have suspense and risk. I want the suspense to be added in the form of challenging encounters and deadly rare monsters. To me the short loot system only adds frustration. I feel that the base timer in default/hardcore should be increased while GGG can shorten it in leagues.

This way we will both be happy.

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Planetsurvival wrote:

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tropane wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

XP loss is a consequence for poor play or a bad build. Most players want the game to be harder because a challenge is fun. The current short timer system favors players who focus on loot over team work, it is not fun but frustrating.

You and me like the death penalty because it adds excitement and suspense. But for some its also not fun and frustrating.

My point was that its impossible to cater to everyone. You wouldnt like to see the death penalty removed because it adds suspense, i wouldnt like to see the FFA loot removed because it adds suspense. Why remove FFA loot and not the death penalty if its about catering to as much people as possible?


We should trust GGG to make the right decision and allow them to make the game THEY envision.

How is loot stealing adding to *suspense*?
Now that is the question, and if some people think so why cant such people have their own league?
Death penalty is the games way of saying "you need to improve your gaming skills".
While loosing a loot item because one plays a ranged character says "melee is going to steal the loot mostly and leave nothing valuable left."

Notice how one thing = "Gaming skill".
And the other = "Griefing".

Who's talking about loot stealing and griefing.. I'm not a griefer.. i'm quite the opposite actually.. I'll happily give up that godly rolled item if someone in my group can use it.

Not everyone supporting FFA loot is a griefer or an asshole. It's not going to kill this game either.

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tropane wrote:

Who's talking about loot stealing and griefing.. I'm not a griefer.. i'm quite the opposite actually.. I'll happily give up that godly rolled item if someone in my group can use it.

Not everyone supporting FFA loot is a griefer or an asshole. It's not going to kill this game either.

We are not worried about helpful and friendly players like you. The Timer/FFA works with friends or in an exclusive environment like Alpha or Beta. We are worried about the negative impact that griefing players can cause in Open.

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tropane wrote:

Who's talking about loot stealing and griefing.. I'm not a griefer.. i'm quite the opposite actually.. I'll happily give up that godly rolled item if someone in my group can use it.

Not everyone supporting FFA loot is a griefer or an asshole. It's not going to kill this game either.

If someone elses timer runs out ill give them the item too, im talking about proper jackasses, class A douchebags that will flood the game once PoE goes open beta.

And you missed my point :)
"Death penalty" affects the player that dies only, can be linked back to the mistakes the player made most of the time too.

"Griefing/FFA Loot stealing" affects everyone *except* the player that *griefs* and is directly linked with 1 player making 5 out of 6 people in the party annoyed.