Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Planetsurvival wrote:

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tropane wrote:

Who's talking about loot stealing and griefing.. I'm not a griefer.. i'm quite the opposite actually.. I'll happily give up that godly rolled item if someone in my group can use it.

Not everyone supporting FFA loot is a griefer or an asshole. It's not going to kill this game either.

If someone elses timer runs out ill give them the item too, im talking about proper jackasses, class A douchebags that will flood the game once PoE goes open beta.

And you missed my point :)
"Death penalty" affects the player that dies only, can be linked back to the mistakes the player made most of the time too.

"Griefing/FFA Loot stealing" affects everyone *except* the player that *griefs* and is directly linked with 1 player making a 5 out of 6 people in the party annoyed.

Advocating for a different loot system is one thing and you are perfectly free to do that.

But currently the game rules says that when some kinds of items drops one random person gets a small window of time to pick it up but when that time is up its free for everybody.
This is to balance the chances between melee and ranged classes.

The "Griefing/FFA Loot stealing" is only in your head its not how the current loot system works.
its FFA = not your item until you have piked it up.

if no item belongs to nobody then get rid of the name and timers and that;s ffa.
but if you put the player name on an item, even for a short time, you get the notion in his head that the item belongs to him. I don't know what that is, but it's not ffa.
I's pure psychology.
Don't try to sneak behind this with the argument "its not yours until it is in your inventory". It seems cheap to me.
Make it pure ffa, no matter the lag, the melee/range play style etc.
And if you are an exile in a dark, gruesome world, then act like a real exile and pkill anyone at your will ... not this pussy exile that has this "loot tension" feel but not "loose-your-life tension" feel.

Yes i think it would be a good idea to remove the names on the timers.

And please stop comparing the loot system to world wide pvp, its not realy the same thing.

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tropane wrote:

And what about XP loss on death? I'm pretty sure thats not fun? Should be removed aswell just to cater to the 'casual'?

I respect your opinions. I do have an issue with this kind of slippery slope argument. XP loss on death effects all players single player or multiplayer. You can't avoid it and it adds a reason to avoid death which is a common sense reason to have in these kinds of games. The loot drop system is avoidable by the many players who have an issue with it but its avoidable as a detriment to the game as a whole. XP loss has a pay off for existing. The loot drop system has little pay off for being the only option. Big differences.

I also cringe at seeing the phrase "cater to the casual". People who play a lot and you would consider "hardcore" also take issues with the current system. I personally see nothing hardcore about camping drops in order to take more for yourself than your teammates. People talk about FFA as being hardcore as if the hardcore players are using it a lot in the way that it was intended. They are not. They are using it for their team groups in order to progress as fast as possible. Whats hardcore about doing that?

Edit: Generally I find that most players understand why the XP penalty is there and don't mind overcoming that obstacle. Where are the many threads with hundreds of pages discussing the problems with XP penalty? I sure haven't seen many. I can look back and check but I doubt its remotely close to being as big as an issue as looting.

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iamstryker wrote:

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tropane wrote:

And what about XP loss on death? I'm pretty sure thats not fun? Should be removed aswell just to cater to the 'casual'?

I respect your opinions. I do have an issue with this kind of slippery slope argument.

I think removing or changing core mechanics because of "no fun" is also a slippery slope.

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iamstryker wrote:

I also cringe at seeing the phrase "cater to the casual".

That makes two of us :) I was using the term (and in quotes while at it) because Planetsurvival was using it multiple times in his posts. I personally hate the distinction.

I do not agree that the looting mode is a core mechanic. It makes no difference to single player whatsoever and the current system is also not being used to compete nearly as much as what the devs intended in their original posts.

In my mind if enough players are avoiding or circumventing the loot system in order to have fun with the game then the system should be updated.

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Zombie_Raptor wrote:

Advocating for a different loot system is one thing and you are perfectly free to do that.

But currently the game rules says that when some kinds of items drops one random person gets a small window of time to pick it up but when that time is up its free for everybody.
This is to balance the chances between melee and ranged classes.

The "Griefing/FFA Loot stealing" is only in your head its not how the current loot system works.
its FFA = not your item until you have piked it up.[/u][/b]

This is obviously a good point of discussion. This system appears to be unintuitive and confusing to the player base. People see their names on the items and immediately want to use that as a fair means to divide up the loot. So they really don't care what the game rules are.

Technically according to game rules people are not being griefed. However some players ARE using it to grief other players and some players definitely FEEL like they are being griefed. This is why public games are not attractive to the general population.

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tropane wrote:

My point was that its impossible to cater to everyone. You wouldnt like to see the death penalty removed because it adds suspense, i wouldnt like to see the FFA loot removed because it adds suspense. Why remove FFA loot and not the death penalty if its about catering to as much people as possible?

We should trust GGG to make the right decision and allow them to make the game THEY envision.

Again, NO ONE is asking for FFA to be removed. They are asking for an option.

The game is still in beta, and will still be after the 23rd. One major purpose of these forums is to provide feedback. It would be counterproductive to not provide feedback, and simply "trust GGG to make the right decision(s)" about everything.

Well, after all that reading and a post a while back I have come to a conclusion, but first let me explain my play style.

I play hard core only. I prefer death to be final and not even go to default league, but I can live with that part. I solo a lot and I group on occasion. I even join public games on occasion as well.

That being said on to my point here. This is an F2P game and it doesn't involve pay to win.

When I join public groups, I am not there for the loot. I am there either to help someone out of a tough fight or am there to have some help for a tough fight only. If I want loot, I either group privately or play solo to farm.

My advice would be that GGG make the game the way they wish it to be. With it being F2P there is no money lost of people that play it don't like it and leave. For those that do like it and stay, they will likely invest some real money in "bling" items to make their character look different than everyone else.

If everyone played with the idea that in public games the loot isn't the reason to be there, there would be a lot less grief and a lot more fun. As mentioned before putting names on items just gives people the idea that the item belongs to them and so induces grief for not being able to grab it in time.

I have played many games, and the best loot system for me was actually player agreed upon need before greed. Everyone knew that items were found, and if it was an upgrade that the person that picked up the item didn't need, he would offer to others that might need it.

In public games this is difficult as there will always be greed.

So as mentioned before, public for helping or being helped, private for need before greed and solo for item farming.

I see nothing wrong with how the loot is done. If you dont like it play solo or with friends plain and simple. Thats what I will be doing since I'm a loot whore and dont intend on sharing my loot with anyone.