CI and Low Life -- totally inconsistent, Please rethink this!!!!

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Pavshaus wrote:

To me it kind of amounts to ....Oh gosh we forgot that players with low life pools will be subject to freezing, burning, stunning, chilling... hmm lets just add some attributes to flasks that will temporarily cure those things..

Except that those flasks (other than the shock one, which you don't mention) existed long before CI, and were in no way implemented specifically to cover it's weaknesses, and CI was and always has been balanced around the fact that you probably* have a low total life pool and thus have the weaknesses of such.

*"probably" because you can technically run CI with a high life pool, as stun/freeze/chill/etc are all based on the life total ignoring CI setting it to 1. People just don't do this much as it requires a lot of investment into life while only getting some of the benefit of that life.

I feel bad that this thread of 'CI AND LOW LIFE SHOULD BE THE SAME' is taking up Marks time.

Can people be more intelligent please. They are quite clearly distinct, and also very consistent with how they work

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Real_Wolf wrote:

I feel bad that this thread of 'CI AND LOW LIFE SHOULD BE THE SAME' is taking up Marks time.

Can people be more intelligent please. They are quite clearly distinct, and also very consistent with how they work

They aren't going away though. This is like the 10th long one since OB started. People will not be happy until CI works exactly like life, or whatever strong version of EHP exists, this one centered around low life.

People don't want unique forms they want everything uniform with different methods of achieving the same thing.

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Moosifer wrote:

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Real_Wolf wrote:

I feel bad that this thread of 'CI AND LOW LIFE SHOULD BE THE SAME' is taking up Marks time.

Can people be more intelligent please. They are quite clearly distinct, and also very consistent with how they work

They aren't going away though. This is like the 10th long one since OB started. People will not be happy until CI works exactly like life, or whatever strong version of EHP exists, this one centered around low life.

People don't want unique forms they want everything uniform with different methods of achieving the same thing.

True.

I remember the old ES setup. You had some pretty ridiculous numbers (sure could have been toned down a bit, but during levelling the numbers felt right, only lategame when you were at a certain level did the numebrs start climbing faster due to multiplicative bonus). But you didn't regen in any way except out of battle.

Combat with my FP was pretty much 'kill enemies within my "tank time" (Health/enemy DPS), if unable to do so run and avoid combat for the 3-6 seconds for a regen'

That was a fun mechanic.

Now its 'life leech-> GR -> Who cares that I am taking damage, as it now works like health'

But apparently the lack of ES leech was a big problem that HAD to be fixed

Being chilled only lessens move, cast and attack speeds by 30%; if its a major problem for your close-range CI character come endgame, theres likely something seriously wrong with your build.

Kaoms heart is fine as is. It forces the character to either get by with 4-links or run a staff, which is plenty of offensive or defensive penalty to make up for the massive life gain.

Shavronnes wrappings and lioneyes glare, otoh, could both use downsides. BIS uniques with all positive mods are terrible for build diversity and game balance.

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KoTao wrote:

Being chilled only lessens move, cast and attack speeds by 30%; if its a major problem for your close-range CI character come endgame, theres likely something seriously wrong with your build.

Kaoms heart is fine as is. It forces the character to either get by with 4-links or run a staff, which is plenty of offensive or defensive penalty to make up for the massive life gain.

Shavronnes wrappings and lioneyes glare, otoh, could both use downsides. BIS uniques with all positive mods are terrible for build diversity and game balance.

I'm sorry, shavronnes is not a BiS unique. It is a build enabler. It is completely outclassed in its slow by an ES chestpiece, with its low ES value. It is however very powerful for low life builds, as a build enabler. Its like saying FB is BiS for gloves, if you are going unarmed. Its not that FB is the best glove, its that its the best for the build.

Also, Lioneyes has a downside. No ele dmg bonus. Not the best possible dps roll. Sure, its not a major downside, but it doesn't have to be to make it not BiS

Really Koams is the closest to BiS as the benefits from its large life pool FAR outweigh the loss of defense of running a staff instead of a shield. its ridiculously effective at the moment, and is definitely a BiS

shavronnes: bis if chaos damage is a major concern, not bis if it isn't (high chaos res + a higher es chest works fine most times)... actually a very tough call because survivability weighs the weakest link rather heavily. however, maybe bis is nowhere near definite bis (kaoms).

ci + low life: only counter intuitive to noobs who aren't familiar with definitions, and would be op unless infused shield was removed.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Pavshaus wrote:

To me it kind of amounts to ....Oh gosh we forgot that players with low life pools will be subject to freezing, burning, stunning, chilling... hmm lets just add some attributes to flasks that will temporarily cure those things..

Except that those flasks (other than the shock one, which you don't mention) existed long before CI, and were in no way implemented specifically to cover it's weaknesses, and CI was and always has been balanced around the fact that you probably* have a low total life pool and thus have the weaknesses of such.

*"probably" because you can technically run CI with a high life pool, as stun/freeze/chill/etc are all based on the life total ignoring CI setting it to 1. People just don't do this much as it requires a lot of investment into life while only getting some of the benefit of that life.

Am I the only one who finds it silly that getting more life actually affects status effects? Personally I think it should be more of a flat thing rather than rewarding players even more for stacking silly amounts of health, especially given that status resist nodes exist.

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Real_Wolf wrote:

I'm sorry, shavronnes is not a BiS unique. It is a build enabler. It is completely outclassed in its slow by an ES chestpiece, with its low ES value. It is however very powerful for low life builds, as a build enabler. Its like saying FB is BiS for gloves, if you are going unarmed. Its not that FB is the best glove, its that its the best for the build.

Also, Lioneyes has a downside. No ele dmg bonus. Not the best possible dps roll. Sure, its not a major downside, but it doesn't have to be to make it not BiS

Really Koams is the closest to BiS as the benefits from its large life pool FAR outweigh the loss of defense of running a staff instead of a shield. its ridiculously effective at the moment, and is definitely a BiS

I dont think shavronnes is outright BIS for general builds, i just think its strong enough that it should have a downside. Probably should have put lioneye and shavronnes in different sentences or something to be more clear.

And lioneye is definitely BIS for a standard physical based bow build; even a perfect 3x damage mod + perfect ias mod rare doesnt equal it. Lioneye ends up with slightly less damage and slightly more speed, but then the cant miss factors in and lioneye just wins. It was more balanced in cb when its dps stats were much lower than a godly rare to make up for the built-in 1-sided resolute technique.

Kaoms is obviously BIS for a lifestacking build but i think thats kind of its purpose, and it comes with a reasonable downside to match. People always play down the negatives but losing a 6-link and/or being forced to run a 2h weapon is a pretty big deal come mid~late maps- or at least it is in hardcore, which is what im basing these arguements on in the first place.

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KoTao wrote:

Kaoms is obviously BIS for a lifestacking build but i think thats kind of its purpose, and it comes with a reasonable downside to match. People always play down the negatives but losing a 6-link and/or being forced to run a 2h weapon is a pretty big deal come mid~late maps- or at least it is in hardcore, which is what im basing these arguements on in the first place.

if using a 2h weapon (melee or bow) is a downside, it shouldn't be