This game has a similar problem as d3- it's impossible to get good items without trading

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Naiphe wrote:

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soulburn wrote:

Maybe the problem is that players are spoiled with instant gratification and want too much, too fast, and without much effort.

Bingo. Enter the WoW generation.

Players are so used to having everything thats ideal handed to them in every game since WoW started doing it, that people get annoyed when they come across a game that doesn't do just that.

And in the games that do hand them these items they spend their time complaining on then forums that they are bored with nothing to do and nothing to aspire to.

OP: PoE is based on diablo 2 roughly, and feels exactly the same itemisation wise as d2 did, in that theres a lot of choice of item options and what particular stats you want and yet theres very little chance of those items dropping for you. Thats basically the idea of the game really.

Anyway; whats wrong with having to trade for what you want, exactly?

I'll only answer this post for now- of course I don't want "instant" gratification, of course there should be -some- work involved in getting items, but at some point in the game, you can't do the content AND can't get the items for the content, which creates an impossible ceiling. Sure, I could level up a tons of characters without using any currencies, to have some sort of base to rely on, but after a few characters playing the same exact content, it gets a bit boring. In Diablo 2, it was far less random, because it didn't have things like links (which are essential in PoE) and it was far easier to get items that sure, weren't "badass" but were good enough for you to move forward, I shouldn't -have- to create 10 chars and get them to high levels to have enough currency to buy 1-2 "great" items for one single character.

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derbefrier wrote:

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dima_dunedin wrote:

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derbefrier wrote:

Good items are extremely easy t craft and really don't take much. Your exaggerating, stop it.

I have 10 chaos and 20 alchemy orbs total. How much you will craft with that?

quite a bit. remember were going for good items not the best there is. I have never had more than 20 Alchs and always manage to get something decent spending around 10 or so. I mean really people when you say crafting sucks or something be honest the problem isn't not being able to craft usable gear its not being able to craft the best gear in the game without using insane amounts of crafting material. There is a big difference here none of you seem to want to admit exists, and instead try to lump it all together to hide the fact yuor just wanting to get the best gear a lot easier. Which may be a valid complaint but at least be honest about what you want so the devs can clearly see it and consider it.

Wait, wait, you don't get much easier than buying.

There is no disputing that.

Right now, you can buy your gear with near enough made to order stats from the 1000's of items up for sale and readily view-able.

Or, you can self find and maybe, maybe out of 1000's of items, find one that is a pseudo version of what you want. Apart from the design that the bought item can come from content not even available to you. But, nevertheless, other items are there to be looted at a tiny chance.

Personally, I prefer to be 'gimped' if you like, in that I need to make do with a not-quite item, it is so much more fun than a tailor made suit. It leaves more room for improvement, the feel of progression, little tweaks and upgrades here and there, sacrificing here to gain there so your build will work, even though it would work better without the sacrifice.

This method of play, for me, offers so much more, the game is a journey, progression is slow and steady, it's a far cry from a purchased tailor made suit, even if acquiring the suit still requires farming but in a much more guaranteed, less surprise, less resistant path.

The problem is, the dropped loot and orb balance in PoE puts such a massive void between the two play styles. To the point really, that one is only closely viable to so very, very few.

I have over 1500 hrs in this game since OB began, this is the sole reason I can self find.

That feeling of progressing on a long journey, on foot, giving a bit here to balance there, small upgades/sidegrades often... is sorely missing in PoE as the design is more of a 'pick your gear from the shelf' and the journey is little other than an express coach ride, should you trade.

I may be walking that journey, but I'm quite alone, many people already got off the buss and many are still waiting at the station.

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Koivu wrote:

I've beaten the entire game gotten to 75 and done many maps all self found solo play. I don't have anything over a 4L and none of my gear would probably even be worth much of anything on a trade market as its marginal. You can do it without trading if you really want to :)

We're not talking "beating" the game, or getting to 75. And we're not talking wearing terribad, badly itemized and/or low tier roll crap ( which you must have been wearing.) If you play an ARPG just to beat the last boss and say you "beat " it...well /facepalm @ you sir. The genre is about gear progression.
You keep farming. But currently all you get for farming is vender trash, to BUY your next upgrade while you slowly accumulate wealth.
OP is right.

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derbefrier wrote:

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dima_dunedin wrote:

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derbefrier wrote:

Good items are extremely easy t craft and really don't take much. Your exaggerating, stop it.

I have 10 chaos and 20 alchemy orbs total. How much you will craft with that?

quite a bit. remember were going for good items not the best there is. I have never had more than 20 Alchs and always manage to get something decent spending around 10 or so.

You will waste all of it, and walk away with low roll, random mish mash mods, badly itemized vender trash.

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Koivu wrote:

I've beaten the entire game gotten to 75 and done many maps all self found solo play. I don't have anything over a 4L and none of my gear would probably even be worth much of anything on a trade market as its marginal. You can do it without trading if you really want to :)

That game, it doesn't end where you think it ends.

What you did was the first 2 or 3 /days.

At one point, when my self found shadow was 10 days /played at 82 (the last few levels of which would have been half that time)..
My self found templar was at ~50 days /played at 85.

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Yerond wrote:

I'll only answer this post for now- of course I don't want "instant" gratification, of course there should be -some- work involved in getting items, but at some point in the game, you can't do the content AND can't get the items for the content, which creates an impossible ceiling. Sure, I could level up a tons of characters without using any currencies, to have some sort of base to rely on, but after a few characters playing the same exact content, it gets a bit boring. In Diablo 2, it was far less random, because it didn't have things like links (which are essential in PoE) and it was far easier to get items that sure, weren't "badass" but were good enough for you to move forward, I shouldn't -have- to create 10 chars and get them to high levels to have enough currency to buy 1-2 "great" items for one single character.

I absolutely agree with you. I misunderstood what you where saying in the OP as I thought you where referring to a more linear gear progression. Not sure why I got a completely different feel to your OP the first time I read it. I think its because most of what I read on game forums these days is basically "gief better loot. Thx for loot. Omg I'm bored now L2gamedesign". So apologies for that

I just re read what you said and agree with you totally if it really is that bad at high level now then something should be done or the game will suffer in the long term due to people getting fed up, much like what happened with diablo 3.

While good/best items should be very much a rarity, basic progression stuff should not take weeks to farm. For example I was just reading another post from a guy claiming he hadn't found a rare upgrade for his blue items in a week of play time, thats really not much fun at all.

This is a real issue, however the OP does a disservice by using the word "impossible". It is not impossible, just very, very, very time-consuming.

Of course you can get lucky and a top notch unique or rare may drop that you can actually use, but to be able to eventually fill all your slots with top end items without trading or multi-accounting - well I can only say you better be prepared to spend literally thousands of hours on the game.

I don't mind trading, but for those that do, they are pretty much screwed in this game.

To get really good equipment you have to run maps, you have to group and you have to trade. Unless this changes, then a large portion of the player base out there is just going to go to another game.

It is already happening, although all the fanboys are saying this is expected...blah blah...beta...initial opening...blah blah.

Wait, so you're complaining that getting top notch gear takes a long time?



Edit. And saying a lvl 60 caster needs an ilvl 77 wand is dumb.

yeah...i guess people want it all "EASY" and get satisfied by that.. MAps are do-able with 4L items... learn to play ;)

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b15h09 wrote:

Dunno how many times I've tried to get an upgraded wand, just to end up with phys dmg, attack speed, ele damage, accuracy, etc. and on the chance it does roll caster mods, it's almost invariably the bottom tier or two. Guess it depends on what you're trying to craft...

Would love to see items never be able to roll a mod more than 3 tiers below their ilevel.

That is why I have a blue wand. I spent 10-15 alterations and got 19% faster cast. It provides better DPS than anything I found so far.

Chest - same. Blue necro silk with 266 ES, around 10 alteration orbs. Still higher than any rare I found (200 ES max)

Shield - same story

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Kalidor wrote:

MAps are do-able with 4L items... learn to play ;)

White maps. There is no point of doing white maps except getting lvl 66 white maps. And variety of course, Solaris temple getting old fast