The REAL truth exposed!! (Brought to you by a player in top 10)

"

Rugs wrote:

Actually, is there any reason why chisels are so relatively rare? I mean there's no guaranteed effect from them and it might help quite a bit in terms of the supply of low levels maps if chisels were to drop twice as often as we could actually run lower level maps using chisels?

It would be a handle I would turn to begin with as dont see any dramatic damages it could do to people not liking a general increased currency drop to help reroll maps.

Interesting fact on chisels.

Faceroll The Ledge Merci with as much counter balancing IIQ as possible.
The Ledge = lvl 53 = first lvl chisels drop = killing monsters as quick as possible = chisels fkn rain down.

(and for some reason, a helluva lot of chance orbs, too)

Hi guys, I want to start off by thanking everyone who's been able to have intelligent and relevant conversations while maintaining composure. I also want to thank GGG for choosing to ban only the trolls and allow the conversation to keep going (rather then lock the thread) as there's some interesting points being made as I read through all 40 pages.

I want to address a couple comments, and then I will attempt to veer this thread back on track in hopes the trolling subsides and the intelligent conversations keep going.

Things to address
-I'm seeing a couple individuals posting comments like "haha your not elite your a scrubcore" blah blah blah. First off many of us at the top of the ladder have characters on both sides. There are also some of us that haven't tried hardcore yet. Regardless, there really is not that much difference between the 2 leagues. You may be able to distinguish the difference in early game but in late late game (high 80 to mid 90s) there is none what so ever. The reason why is because (I don't expect even a fraction of you to know this) but when you die in the 90s, I promise you that feeling is the EXACT same feeling as dying in hardcore. Depending on what tier of maps your farming and how much you play, dying in the 90s can set you back DAYS of experience. And I'm talking FULL playtime days of 14+hours. I can also assure you that the "exit to log in screen in danger" is just as popular on softcore as it is on hardcore. The only thing that separates hardcore is in early game, everyone and every character has to overload on the generic life nodes, where softcore gives you more freedom to experiment. In the end tho, in both leagues, end game requires the same amount of survivability and damage to be successful regardless of league your in. In hardcore you die, in softcore you dont progress, both scenarios lead you out of the competition for ladder. So stop with this arrogant attitude. When you reach our levels, you will understand.

-This is beta, game not finished argument. We are all aware this is beta, and if I am not mistaken I posted this thread on the "beta feedback" forums, a place where experienced, knowledgeable players can post their thoughts on current systems as to potentially improve them before launch. If this is not what this particular forum section is made for, then I am sorry /end sarcasm. Myself and the others at the top are some of the most knowledgeable, most experienced players in the game. We have more playtime then everyone and have been subjected to a lot more and a lot more often. This thread was not a complaining post, this thread was to shed light on the real truth of what's going on at these levels and how it's not a good game design. None of us are complaining, we will continue to buy maps and currency with real money in large quantities, because as aimlessguns pointed out, ladder competition at this stage is about dollars per XP (which is not a good design).

Now GGG has already spoken by saying they have several plans to change this problem and I for one am glad to hear it. People shouldn't have to resort to RMT to:
1. Compete in rankings
2. Finish their characters to try can create new projects
3. Experience the highest maps
4. Get gear so they can actually play it

I understand many of you are probably frustrated that we are cheating by using RMT but the fact is its a reality. That's why I chose to come out with it so that GGG can do things in the future and add content that gives people the opportunity to do what we are doing without the need for RMT. If currency and maps (for example) were readily available, we probably wouldn't be shopping on RMT sites at the extend we are now. Most of us probably wouldn't period.
I think many of you would be very surprised just how many players (including new ones) are resorting to RMT because of how the progression system is currently implemented, especially for mapping. By the end of the week I could link 50 accounts with proof and that's just me alone.

The worst part about is, the guys over at GGG who are busting their asses working round the clock for this great game are not even getting their rightful share of this money. I personally would rathe send all these waves of money their way, instead of RMT, but the current design just doesn't make it an option.

Lets keep the feedback appropriate, I especially like aimlessguns point that chisels should be removed. Please be civil, it really is not that hard.

It's amazing how many people really did completely miss the point of the thread and get their pitchforks out without any real understanding.

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Interesting fact on chisels.

Faceroll The Ledge Merci with as much counter balancing IIQ as possible.
The Ledge = lvl 53 = first lvl chisels drop = killing monsters as quick as possible = chisels fkn rain down.

(and for some reason, a helluva lot of chance orbs, too)

They dont exactly rain down, but they drop. They sell for app 3:1 for a chaos so its like 1+ chaos for a map. Not really cheap and worth it for low level maps. Just a suggestion anyway.

"

aimlessgun wrote:

Honestly chisels should just be removed.

And then increase item quantity for every map instead? Ok, but we would loose something to pickup which I think is a shame as stuff that can be traded is good.

While I agree with the topic at hand.

PLEASE stop saying you're experienced and have the most knowledge. This is absolutely asinine. Your knowledge is limited, and you have no more experience than well, any other player who plays high lvl maps. If anything, your group is probably the least knowledgeable and experienced in this game. Because well,, you're not playing it.

Your ego is what's making this topic so toxic, even more than the issue.

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

While I agree with the topic at hand.

PLEASE stop saying you're experienced and have the most knowledge. This is absolutely asinine. Your knowledge is limited, and you have no more experience than well, any other player who plays high lvl maps. If anything, your group is probably the least knowledgeable and experienced in this game. Because well,, you're not playing it.

Your ego is what's making this topic so toxic, even more than the issue.

Edit it was supposed to say "some of the most knowledgeable and experienced".

And really slayer?? Like really? You need to calm down man....stop getting so easily offended. You need to develop some Teflon skin.

"

willnotdisclose wrote:

Spoiler

Hi guys, I want to start off by thanking everyone who's been able to have intelligent and relevant conversations while maintaining composure. I also want to thank GGG for choosing to ban only the trolls and allow the conversation to keep going (rather then lock the thread) as there's some interesting points being made as I read through all 40 pages.

I want to address a couple comments, and then I will attempt to veer this thread back on track in hopes the trolling subsides and the intelligent conversations keep going.

Things to address
-I'm seeing a couple individuals posting comments like "haha your not elite your a scrubcore" blah blah blah. First off many of us at the top of the ladder have characters on both sides. There are also some of us that haven't tried hardcore yet. Regardless, there really is not that much difference between the 2 leagues. You may be able to distinguish the difference in early game but in late late game (high 80 to mid 90s) there is none what so ever. The reason why is because (I don't expect even a fraction of you to know this) but when you die in the 90s, I promise you that feeling is the EXACT same feeling as dying in hardcore. Depending on what tier of maps your farming and how much you play, dying in the 90s can set you back DAYS of experience. And I'm talking FULL playtime days of 14+hours. I can also assure you that the "exit to log in screen in danger" is just as popular on softcore as it is on hardcore. The only thing that separates hardcore is in early game, everyone and every character has to overload on the generic life nodes, where softcore gives you more freedom to experiment. In the end tho, in both leagues, end game requires the same amount of survivability and damage to be successful regardless of league your in. In hardcore you die, in softcore you dont progress, both scenarios lead you out of the competition for ladder. So stop with this arrogant attitude. When you reach our levels, you will understand.

-This is beta, game not finished argument. We are all aware this is beta, and if I am not mistaken I posted this thread on the "beta feedback" forums, a place where experienced, knowledgeable players can post their thoughts on current systems as to potentially improve them before launch. If this is not what this particular forum section is made for, then I am sorry /end sarcasm. Myself and the others at the top are the most knowledgeable, most experienced players in the game. We have more playtime then everyone and have been subjected to a lot more and a lot more often. This thread was not a complaining post, this thread was to shed light on the real truth of what's going on at these levels and how it's not a good game design. None of us are complaining, we will continue to buy maps and currency with real money in large quantities, because as aimlessguns pointed out, ladder competition at this stage is about dollars per XP (which is not a good design).

Now GGG has already spoken by saying they have several plans to change this problem and I for one am glad to hear it. People shouldn't have to resort to RMT to:
1. Compete in rankings
2. Finish their characters to try can create new projects
3. Experience the highest maps
4. Get gear so they can actually play it

I understand many of you are probably frustrated that we are cheating by using RMT but the fact is its a reality. That's why I chose to come our with it so that GGG can do things in the future and add content that gives people the opportunity to do what we are doing without the need for RMT. If currency and maps (for example) were readily available, we probably wouldn't be shopping on RMT sites at the extend we are now. Most of us probably wouldn't period.

Lets keep the feedback appropriate, I especially like aimlessguns point that chisels should be removed. Please be civil, it really is not that hard.

It's amazing how many people really did completely miss the point of the thread and get their pitchforks out without any real understanding.

this makes me really sad.
I've seen RMT (and Pay-To-Win in general) happen far too many times in Ladders of too many games, primarily in recent years.
it's one of the two major reasons why I didn't compete in any rankings since the late 90s. the other reason being my family and job, which make it impossible for me to play nearly as much as I did a long time ago.

but for god's sake man, I'd rather know all you "top players" are using character editors, map-hacks and/or other "cheating tools", than THIS.
because buying stuff with real money isn't just cheating - it's creating demand for a real-world industry that should really be illegal. it's exploitation at it's worst and human nature at it's ugliest.

the GGG staff responses here made me lose all hope, about them actually fixing the design and gameplay issues which lead to an "RMT-boom" in the first place.
they would rather ban a few accounts just to feel as if they are doing something, instead of both starting a massive ban campaign AND cutting the lifeline ( = the demand) of RMT from within the game.

therefore in the end it falls onto your shoulders and the shoulders of the rest of the players. so again, please: cheat if you must, but do not take it outside the game. do not fuel "the industry".

Id like that. I spend all day doing all my maps starting 66 to 71 lvl and near nothing map droped (i play solo and dont like Inc Rarity or Inc Quat gears), so i need lost much more time to farm docks or lunaris to find some 66 lvl maps... after doing there 66 lvl maps droped only 1 or 2 66-67 lvl maps. And buy every time maps its not solution, bcs to roll maps i need currency.

The question I am left with.

If the top 10/20/whatever players all use RMT, a lot.
If the top 10/20/whatever players claim to have the most /played time (I'd challenge that but w/e).
If GGG claim to actively be banning RMT users by the 1000.

How are all these 'sore thumbs' still in game?
Wouldn't these be the ones that stood out the most in RMT detection?


Something isn't right here, GGG?

"

johnKeys wrote:

Garble

Your analogy is wrong. Buying currency isn't a necessity.

This is supposed to be the analogy: Farm wheat to make your bread. Farm currency then generate good maps.

You have alot to lose I see. RMTrader or currecny seller?

"

UnderOmerta wrote:

So person A owes person B some exalteds. Instead of earning it legitimately, person A buys them and trades them to person B. Person B gets banned because they think he's person A's main.

Sounds legit.

Yes. Correct provided person A also gets banned. Addit: you carefully, conveniently, manipulatively and purposely forgot the person who sold person A the exalted. His alts and main gets banned too.