(Suggestion) New ideas to solve death penalty and Extra inventory slots end-game bonus grind

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Devellaro#7379 wrote:

Less HP makes a character weaker. Period.

...Which is just wrong. And it can EASILY be proven by a couple of lame, extreme examples. Lets say you have 3000 health and 0 resistances. Reducing your health to 2500 while increasing your resistances is, in most cases, a net profit, but again; it depends on your other defenses.

Hp (and eHP) just isn't everything i a game with a million debuffs and mechanics that just isn't covered by HP. Saying "Less HP makes a character weaker. Period." just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Period. You're practically saying that a character with 2500 HP is weaker than a character with 3000 HP, NO MATTER the other defenses. And that is.... You guessed it... Factually wrong.

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Devellaro#7379 wrote:

Feel free to tell me where I have a mistake that could kill me in ultimatum or harvest.

I mean, as someone with no stake in this argument who certainly doesn't care enough to pull up anyone's characters I still gotta say this:

Ultimatum is some of the most insanely difficult content it is possible to have in this game. Pick the wrong mods, or pair the right mods with the wrong map mods, and you WILL die. There's no such thing as a character which is always unkillable in Ultimatum, at least not within a practical budget of under 500 div.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

In 9/10 cases, you can usually explain "random deaths" or "one-shots" by looking at a character's defenses and offenses. While one-shots do happen, they are VERY rare and far in-between on a well-built character.

"Random deaths" aren't random just because a player can't explain them based on his own level of knowledge. Every light on the sky isn't an alien UFO just because a person can't explain what he's seeing.

You must have missed the whole conversation, and more importantly my explanation. Or you are going off on a useless tangential argument.

Let me explain it a bit more in depth. My character was tanking upwards of 100 mobs no problem. It was tanking the big bear slams from harvest. It was regening through ground effects if they appeared. I had no debuffs visible on my character that would cause death, and the more I died the more I watched for these things. But I would still RANDOMLY just be dead. No visible boss slam, not 100s of mobs, no ground effects. No DD procs that I noticed. Yet after attaining hinder immunity - no more deaths.

I do not have 100% POE knowledge, I am not a pro gamer and I do not have the extensive 1000's of hours of playtime some of you have, but I have just enough brain cells that I think I know what is killing me more often than not. I think I can clearly ascertain whether something is random.

And even though your 9/10 number is random and pulled out of nowhere, why do you automatically assume my death/s/ are from the 9/10s, and not the 10%?

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Devellaro#7379 wrote:

You must have missed the whole conversation, and more importantly my explanation. Or you are going off on a useless tangential argument.

I admit that I haven't read the whole conversation. But when I read rather stupid sentences like "Less HP makes a character weaker. Period.", I just can't help myself to debate and debunk it, because that sentence alone shows that you are wrong. You even repeated the sentence, which made me curious.

If you look at my "Phrazzerate" character; he has WAY less life than your character, but I would claim that he's WAY tankier (and deals way more DPS), though he's a little bit weak to chaos.



But then again; I didn't (and won't) read the whole conversation, so I might have missed something.

^you didn't miss anything.

It's a classic case of someone who THINKS he knows everything, being confronted with new (and more accurate) information and refusing to accept it. It is the same argument over and over again with people who complain about random deaths. Nothing ever changes.

The immediate personal attack when confronted is a dead giveaway to the type of person being engaged.

I'm glad though that you have actual stats there to show though, and a perfect choice too. While your ehp is "infinite" on paper, that doesn't mean you can't die. And ESPECIALLY in Ultimatum, as Carribbean points out is some of the most punishing content the game can possibly throw at you, all in a tiny circle. You can throw a single bad mod into the mix, or an ill-timed hinder stopping your movement for an extra frame, and you get blasted long before any of your recovery kicks in. In your character's case, the likelihood of that happening has been brought down as low as possible thanks to block and mitigation combined. It can still happen though, and it wouldn't be random. It's just astronomically rare and potentially statistically impossible depending on the content you run.


This player is looking at numbers on a spreadsheet, 100%, and NOT understanding what they legitimately mean for his character. Furthermore his "explanation" is wrong. He blames a non-existent bug that he "solved", rather than the very real solution to the content he was attempting.

He also seemed to allude that because its a "cast when stunned" build that relies on getting hit, that must mean it for some reason can't be killed when getting hit. Just because it can survive 100 mobs at one time, it should be able to survive them ALL the time. That's the level of thinking here. And that's where "random deaths" come into play. Each and every time. The build IS tanky, but its not immortal and it has weaknesses. Knowing what those weaknesses are and avoiding them is how random deaths are STOPPED.

To that "less hp is weaker, period" comment: the ONLY time that is true in absolute is if nothing else changes, AND you aren't already well above the threshold of most or all damaging hits. There are many instances where lowering your hp and nothing else can mean.....nothing at all. Example: if you are fighting a boss who deals 4k damage in a big hit and you have 5000 life. You are crit immune already and you can recover your hp between boss attacks. You lower your life to 4500, you are no weaker against that boss than you were with 5000 hp. That's called "min/maxing": trimming the needless stats to the bare minimum or maximum needed to get the full effect. HP is just another thing that can be min/maxed higher OR lower.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

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Devellaro#7379 wrote:

Less HP makes a character weaker. Period.

...Which is just wrong. And it can EASILY be proven by a couple of lame, extreme examples. Lets say you have 3000 health and 0 resistances. Reducing your health to 2500 while increasing your resistances is, in most cases, a net profit, but again; it depends on your other defenses.

Hp (and eHP) just isn't everything i a game with a million debuffs and mechanics that just isn't covered by HP. Saying "Less HP makes a character weaker. Period." just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Period. You're practically saying that a character with 2500 HP is weaker than a character with 3000 HP, NO MATTER the other defenses. And that is.... You guessed it... Factually wrong.

You are missing the trees for the forest. And completely missing the point multiple times. I don't know if you are trying to argue math, or just saying something about what it takes to kill a character. You are also once again trying to make a straw man argument without looking at the REAL DATA set I am working with. My character. I am not using BS theoretical examples pulled from nowhere like you. I am not changing massive eHP calculations.

If you gotp the fair, and a ride says you have to be 4 ft or taller, it doesn't matter if you are 3'9" or 3'10", you still are not getting on the ride. BUT MY point that you seem to miss, is 3'9' is still shorter. Even when they get the same result. Doesn't matter if one has a tall hat on.

Does that in any way make sense to you? Or do you want to argue in meters and try to prove me wrong?

You try and prove me wrong by bringing in parameters that are not used in the argument. I am totally discounting allll the other eHP metrics POE has. Does not matter if you have higher resist, or more damage taken as - cause in MY CASE THEY ARE THE SAME! How can you miss that?

All my elem resist are 90, overcapped by over a 100. My chaos res is high enough, and did not change. ALL my immunities are the same - excepting hinder.

The only things that change are hinder and HP. If my HP goes down. My character is weaker. Even if I don't die. 9 is less than 10.

Now ya'll need to stop trolling.

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Devellaro#7379 wrote:

Blablabla

So you didn't really mean that sentence? Got it.

Anyhow, one of the best defenses in PoE, is movement speed. Everyone knows that - and that isn't shown by defensive numbers on any spread sheet. So immunity to hinder can - in some cases - make your character practically stronger and tankier, even if your eHP is less, as again; movement speed isn't shown in those calculations.

I still you have a hard time separating numbers and practice. I'm not trolling, you just have to be OK with the fact that people disagree with you.

But you have a nice days - and you should probably start making some better characters and include avoidance and spell suppression into your builds, works wonders.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

But you have a nice days - and you should probably start making some better characters and include avoidance and spell suppression into your builds, works wonders.

To his defense in at least one thing, you can't put avoidance in a Cast When Stunned build. Or at least you shouldn't

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

To his defense in at least one thing, you can't put avoidance in a Cast When Stunned build. Or at least you shouldn't

To my defense, I only looked at his defenses, which didn't really seem that impressive. That said, you're right of course.

Again you bring in a moot point. Arguing about the slow value of hinder is pointless. I do not need to move, but if I wanted I have no problem with it.

You do not know my movement speed ( it is 165% ), so even if I had max hinder Id be 115% MS. My speed is not a problem. Again more so because I do not need to move. My speed is for QOL and to get across the map. Not to dodge things I can tank.

Also have frost blink if for some really insane reason there is a puddle of something under me that seems to actually threaten to kill my character.

Hinder should not be a problem. Period.

Cow seems to think it is some widely known phenomenon that kills people. But goes on to talk about the same aspect you do, not being able to move as fast. Totally disregards the BUG portion which if he bothered to look it up, is not made up and not coming from me.

If the movement pentalty from hinder was a problem, it would be from too many projectiles or too many puddles, or causing you to miss dodging a slam.

None of those are my problem.


Hinder was literally acting like a shock or a crit. Which it is not supposed to do. Didn't matter how many mobs there were, a few or a lot. Didn't matter if they were weak ones or semi boss ones. I never even had time to see hinder icon. I just popped for no reason. No slow degens, no small chunks adding up. Only found out it was hinder after someone talked about the BUG.

Got the hinder immunity and no longer pop like I was taking 1000% more damage. (Only thing that MIGHT make sense, is if they somehow changed hinder to slow your regen and recoup and did not mention it. Or did not know they did.)

None of my argument has to do with numbers or spreadsheets or POB like cow keeps spewing. It is all about ONE thing. And you both just gloss over it for no reason, just bringing in extra useless baseless claims of how inadequate my character or my understanding of the game is.

Avoidance and spell suppression are not in every build and do not need to be. But I have played other builds with them, and they died more than a tanky build meant to take the hits. Avoidance was better when dodge was still a thing. Stack dodge/evasion/block all at the same time.