Will bosses recover if you die or retreat?

"

Jiki05 wrote:

It sounds to me like this game isn't for these type of gamers. You want that type of challenge? Go play Diablo 3. They have elite and boss monsters that regen full hp in under 3 secs.

Like some others have said already. Don't try to make this game a game just for you. If the game isn't for you move onto another game that will give you what you want. If you wish to stay and play the game then play it how the developers made the game. And like others suggested just don't use this so called "exploit" and do it your way. No one is forcing you to use "cheats".

If this ever gets implemented I will quite possibly move on to another game. This isn't an MMORPG this is an ARPG.

Dear Jiki,

First of all, you are not in position to tell me to go to play other game. I'm here to express my concerns and you have your right not to agree with me.

Seccond, nobody is talking about rare packs or thrash mob here (it is fine if some of them have faster regen rate). We are only talking about boss fights which me and some other players feel these fights should be more demanding, not to say epic (at later difficulties).

"No one is forcing you to use "cheats"." - Did you ever play chess? How about allowing one side to move bishop like knight and rock like queen?

If they go and lock out being able to use town portals during fights to prevent what a few deem as an exploit to win boss encounters what's next? Automaticly killing any player that loses connection to the server to halt people from using Alt+ F4 to avoid death because some people feel that that is a exploit?

Action RPGs tend to be all about the gear, and putting in any kind of gear check is instantly going to make people upset. Diablo III's Inferno mode is essentially this, brick walling players until the right pieces of gear drop so they can progress. It wasn't a matter of skill or even build, if you didn't have the gear you weren't progressing. Considering Path of Exile isn't exactly friendly in terms of resetting skills, making gear checks in terms of bosses regenerating health would be a huge deterrent to players who want to experiment.

"

Kokoro wrote:

That solution would not solve much if anything. Players would be casting TP in advantage so they have it always opened if things go wrong.

That's true, I suppose. I mean, my initial thought is "but you can only do that once, right?", but in actuality I have no idea how bosses act if you kite them around and portal out - whether they come back to where they spawn or hang around or what.

Still, I think the delay would be a useful addition. I've also long thought the free, automatic refill should be neither of those things, and there may be other things that could be put in place too. Basically I find the regen thing a very thuggish approach, and I'd much rather discourage the portal-home technique, add costs/risks to it, rather than flat-out outlawing it.

"

Kokoro wrote:

There are many options to consider in such cases. I listed some of them in my earlier post.

Yes, you did, but I was thinking of the situation in which the player has already "changed their tactics" and switched an extra health potion in. Beyond that, all that's left is grind - for levels as I mentioned, and for equipment, skills (both new skills and stronger ones) and respec points as you mentioned.

"

Kokoro wrote:

Ok, but there is difference between non-optimal bulids and screwed up builds.

Not an objective difference though. I like that I get to decide how absurd my methods have to be for the build to be "invalid" by my standards.

"

Kokoro wrote:

We cannot justify leaving such backdoors only because otherwise some poorly planned builds will not be able to deliver.

Well actually we can do just that, but nevertheless...I'm a strong supporter of the idea that the areas leading up to the boss should be a useful indicator of how prepared you are. To me, if the build has been able to get to the boss, it is "delivering" by definition. To then have the boss be an impossible roadblock requiring massive effort because some people wanted an "exploit" removed, I think would be a terrible idea. Sure, if all the bosses were balanced perfectly (whatever the hell that would even mean), you wouldn't need to do it, but in a game this complex I think a little safeguard against frustration from bad game design (or just weird variant play) is a good thing.

It's like that D2 Diablo fight. It's great that you learned about the game more, but it doesn't always cut it. Clay golem didn't have that slow when I first got to Diablo, for instance, nor could hirelings be healed with potions or equipped with items. Fire resist caps at 75 and Diablo has an essentially undodgeable one - simple fact is, a there was very little a puny little necromancer could change to do better.

It got better in later patches, mainly when they made skeletons fewer but tougher and added that clay golem slow. That balanced the encounter better, and if things are well-balanced between classes/builds there's no real issue. But in the meantime, if you had been designing the game, my necromancer would have been completely stuck. If you give me two versions of the game, one where I can extricate myself from such extreme circumstances through a technique a few people on the internet don't like, and one in which I can do nothing save restart a character that was doing perfectly well all the way up to one particular badly-balanced encounter, I'll take the former every time.

"

Soulmancer wrote:

I really hope they will implement this to make bosses require strategy and skill as opposed to simple time and persistance. It seems dumb that the heroes can run away and heal at anytime while the major bosses aren't afforded the same luxury... It seems only fair if the player dies or retreats from the battle to recover that major bosses should do the same. Otherwise boss difficulty never becomes about challenge as it does about tedium. I really want to see this; it has been implemented in TL2 and Diablo 3

i really hope they dont, because that is a major reason i quit diablo 3, and will never pick up TL2.


hp regeneration on bosses is the DUMBEST way to artificially inflate difficulty i can think of.

I agree that adding HP regeneration to bosses is not at all appropriate in this game.

NOTHING is worse than gear checks in a game that will never be balanced. This is why Inferno in Diablo 3 is so tedious and frustrating. Nothing is more frustrating than hitting a brick wall in a game that has an emphasis on KILLING SHIT, CUSTOMIZATION, getting PHAT LOOT and having FUN.

This isn't a PvP balance issue. This is PvE in an ARPG. You give the power and the advantage to the player, not to the AI. Merveil isn't going to come complaining to the forums that she isn't getting proper HP regeneration. On the other hand, players will complain if this change goes through, and rightly so.

I'm glad I read this thread. Otherwise I would not have known that TL2 locked you in with the boss and gave the boss health regen. I can't stand that.

For those of you that want "hardcore rules" like this, I hope GGG gives you a league for it. But please do not make rules like this in the Default league.

I just got to Merveil for the first time and died once because I had no idea that I needed resist cold gear. At my level, the only resist cold gear I've ever found is on a ring.

It would have taken me ages to grind for some resist cold gear. My character a dual sword duelist. Significant respeccing is very difficult in this game. If Merveil regenerated while I was gone then this would have been the end of this character.

The only thing worse than bosses which regen when you leave would be those rage timer things that D3 has--where if you do not kill the boss fast enough then he becomes more powerful. That's just madness and discourages trying out new builds that might be fun even though they have low DPS.

"

Kokoro wrote:

"

Jiki05 wrote:

It sounds to me like this game isn't for these type of gamers. You want that type of challenge? Go play Diablo 3. They have elite and boss monsters that regen full hp in under 3 secs.

Like some others have said already. Don't try to make this game a game just for you. If the game isn't for you move onto another game that will give you what you want. If you wish to stay and play the game then play it how the developers made the game. And like others suggested just don't use this so called "exploit" and do it your way. No one is forcing you to use "cheats".

If this ever gets implemented I will quite possibly move on to another game. This isn't an MMORPG this is an ARPG.

Dear Jiki,

First of all, you are not in position to tell me to go to play other game. I'm here to express my concerns and you have your right not to agree with me.

Seccond, nobody is talking about rare packs or thrash mob here (it is fine if some of them have faster regen rate). We are only talking about boss fights which me and some other players feel these fights should be more demanding, not to say epic (at later difficulties).

"No one is forcing you to use "cheats"." - Did you ever play chess? How about allowing one side to move bishop like knight and rock like queen?

Like I said myself I wouldn't be here at all to play this game if had the mechanic and obviously players here are divided on this issue. There are already certain games out there that already have this mechanic of regen elite/boss hp's. Move on and play those. You have the option.

Obviously the developers intended this so called "cheat" to be in their game. "Cheats" are never intended by the developers.

For most of us, having end act bosses have Hp regen is like banging your head against the wall if you can't beat them. And it is all about having the time spent to either grind for gear or grind for levels. If my character can get to the end boss of the act shouldn't my character at least have a chance of winning?

You have a right to express your concern or a suggestion for the game but having to force it onto other players that do not want them is asinine. Hopefully, GGG bring those types of options into your own league but not the default league.

Like I said before. If they do implement this feature I would just move on and I wont ever regret having to have spent $10 on a great game.

I do not agree with this.

Those who do, what difficulty and league are you on?

The death xp penalty takes too long to get back at higher levels from ruthless onward.

People aren't just TPing because they want to get out, one of the main reasons is the death penalty. From ruthless onward monsters start to hit like trucks, and the mods on them are ridiculous, especially when 2/3 mob bosses are together.

Bosses hit way too hard in the higher difficulties. Too hard. 1 shotting some characters. You have to understand that there will be a wide variety of builds in POE. Bosses have to be made with this in mind.

If this idea in implemented then everyone would be forced to use certain builds for certain bosses. This will reduce variety, and many builds will NEVER progress. This is not a theory, but fact. What makes so many bosses defeatable for the large variety of players is the fact that they don't regen.

I don't know what difficulty you're on, but you really don't understand how bad this idea is until you get to the higher ones, and how "cookie cutter builds that can defeat bosses in one go" will be the only builds those who stick around to play will have.

Look. I am not making these claims and suggestions based on ignorance...

I created Hell Unleashed, one of the most popular and successful multiplayer mods for Diablo 2.

A mechanic I introduced was recovering bosses, if a boss was not triggered for 30 seconds it would recover. I in turn balanced bosses approriately so they could be overcome with the right strategies, party composition or gear set up. It was a much more enjoyable and smooth style of gameplay that required thought and skill... Yes sometimes your first couple attempts at a boss would result in defeat so you adjust gear and prepare and use better tactics the next time... It was a hell of a lot more excited then blindly swinging and casting spells not caring how much damage you took because at any time you can call a time out and go back to town for a gatoraid then return at your leisure... Plus you sought to avoid death because it actually meant a defeat not just some abstract xp loss.

I implemented a better system and my player base praised this aspect of my mod. You just have to balance them accordingly... The current built in exploit/cheat is a lazy way out where you don't have to worry about balancing the bosses and they can be completely over-powered forcing you to TP a dozen times. Its a poor system.

If you have to create a seperate league that limits TPing and makes bosses more interesting than so be it. But I don't want to see them same tired exploitable boss system then every Diablo clone seems to copy. The problem is bosses in later difficulties are overpowered and it requires you to TP and retreat.