Will bosses recover if you die or retreat?
" You have tremendous choice how to play that game and I provided some solutions how to "legally" overcome a hard boss in my earlier post. Still you prefer "cheap" and "exploitable" solutions over challenging and demanding ones. I don't understand this but, oh well, everybody is different. Of course, you have your right not to agree with me over how to play the game. This is an easy-going vs tough approach and I know it is not possible to please everybody. Notice that PoE is widely described as a cut-throat fantasy world and the word "cut-throat" means something here ... One more note, you are wrong when saying that "their choices don't impact yours". They do because by using exploits (and abusing town portal while fighting boss is exploit for me) these people have easier access to better drops. That again impacts the trade market where I'm involved as a part of the community. |
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My take on it is more traditional rather than sadistic.
As you said, players have many choices on how to play the game and I find it funny that you use the term 'legally' to describe methods that you find to be more meritorious than others. I think MisterClean84 said it pretty well since you don't like my take on it. " The genre is about fun and progression, Kokoro, not arbitrary and painful checkpoints. Last edited by YoMicky#3367 on Jul 5, 2012, 7:20:12 PM
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@YoMicky: I see your aspect shown here, what i have to say with the given example of yours same thing could be said for these as well;
To a ranged build: "If you are looking for a challenge then just don't keep the distance, keep staying close quarter even after the monster starts hitting you" Or another example could be: "If you are getting too many wisdom scrolls, then do not collect every one of them." I fear the statement you said to Kokoro could be exampled by these two lines given above. These are hardly could be called as "solutions", right ? Since there is no goal for to be achieved, then how could you expect from one to find the motivation to do them so ? For what sake ? If the game gives you, you most likely would want to take it at best possible way, if there is no other reason for not to. It is human psychology, and its scientificly known. So predict as if the situation would get forced now. What would it happen ? Everyone would try/do his/her best to get the most out of combat and am sure many people would start to achieve success that normally they would not. Cause before they were more "comfort" and wouldn't want to make their best at first since there is no prize behind it; there wouldn't be any reason tbh. "This is too good for you, very powerful ! You want - You take" Last edited by BrecMadak#3812 on Jul 5, 2012, 7:42:09 PM
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I see your point, but I don't believe it would make the players get more out of combat. It would force players to respec/reroll/farm for better gear just to progress when everyone knows games such as these are heavily geared to the end game.
I just don't think it's very important to add in as a mechanic. I find the Oak battle very unenjoyable for exactly this reason. Well to be fair, that and his ridiculous hp on top of it. I would bend and agree that tps should reset a fight, but, in the attempt to make gameplay better, it becomes a detriment at the same time. This takes out a very huge part of the game - the ability to save your progress through checkpoints. I don't believe a death and respawn should reset every boss encounter, however, and I also hate the idea of adding a Life Regen timer on them during or after a fight. That is just frustrating and uninsightful, frankly. Last edited by YoMicky#3367 on Jul 5, 2012, 7:51:19 PM
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" Dear YoMicky, Sadistic and challenging are the words having two different meanings and they are not even synonyms. Ambitious is the correct synonym for challenging. I believe you are ambitious player? Running challenging but doable fights is not sadistic by any means. " That progression is measured by your game skill improvement. If you fail to defeat a boss then you did something wrong and it is time for retrospection and improvement. With more skill, different tactics and better gear you will eventually do that. And that will bring more satisfaction with fair game than skipping the boss with some cheap tricks. |
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" I'm very skeptical that this would prove to be fun. It looks good on paper, I'll admit, but it screams "horrible replayability" for me... Last edited by YoMicky#3367 on Jul 5, 2012, 8:05:08 PM
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" It sounds to me like this game isn't for these type of gamers. You want that type of challenge? Go play Diablo 3. They have elite and boss monsters that regen full hp in under 3 secs. Like some others have said already. Don't try to make this game a game just for you. If the game isn't for you move onto another game that will give you what you want. If you wish to stay and play the game then play it how the developers made the game. And like others suggested just don't use this so called "exploit" and do it your way. No one is forcing you to use "cheats". If this ever gets implemented I will quite possibly move on to another game. This isn't an MMORPG this is an ARPG. |
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So to avoid this exploit/cheat you're suggesting I either a.) play on hardcore and not TP during bosses. or b.) log out of the game and start a new one when I die in the standard league.
TPing is optional yes. whether I do it or not random people I party with may not abide by the same restriction, thus making it completely pointless unless I only play single player. Not too mention when I die the boss will still be injured so I'd have to log out and start a new game to actually cause a health reset. Its not as conveniently optional as you make it sound. Its an in your face nearly forced exploit or cheat... You said it yourself, the only way to beat bosses in later difficulties is to exploit this mechanic... Plus my own restrictions can't be imposed on other random players I join with... Plus it doesn't solve the issue of death unless I play on hardcore, which I don't enjoy doing due to lagdeath. Why should they have such a loud built in exploit to avoid properly balancing bosses and catering to players who suck? Blizzard already has a game that caters to players who suck, why don't need another. Last edited by Soulmancer#2915 on Jul 5, 2012, 11:23:56 PM
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The solution (if this is actually a problem) that I much prefer is a delay on casting town-portal so that you can't use it as a panic button or a no-risk flask refill. That also has the advantage of functioning in multiplayer, where otherwise a rotation of players could ensure a simple regen-on-exit never occurred.
But honestly I don't find it a big deal. I see where people are coming from, of course, but I remember the first time I beat Diablo in Diablo 2, as a skeleton-heavy necromancer. His AOE attacks wiped out my skeleton armies instantly, leaving me with some weak spells and occasionally a few swipes from a golem. About thirty TPs later, I killed him, and it didn't feel like any less a feat just because I wasn't in the designated battle arena the whole time. In fact I may have felt more like the hero because in character, I had 'outwitted' the great Diablo and his brute-force approach. If I hadn't been able to do that, my only option would have been to grind quite a few more levels or possibly attempt to switch to melee gear temporarily - which may not have even been possible. So basically if I hadn't been able to spend time and resources grinding levels and buying new gear, I'd have to spend it picking away at the boss and buying TP scrolls. Time spent is time spent, really. Of course, for that to be an entirely relevant example I'd have to be asserting that D2 was a perfectly balanced game and Diablo a perfectly balanced boss, which would be absurd. And it's not exactly the same situation since here we're probably talking more about one or two TPs, not thirty. Like I said, a delay might remove some "exploitative" aspects of the mechanic, but fundamentally I don't have a problem with there being slightly silly ways to win at boss fights - being able to do things in slightly silly ways is usually half the appeal of character-building games for me anyway. It'd be a great shame to move the game towards a point where you can't run non-optimal builds even through unusual or slow methods. Last edited by GusTheCrocodile#5954 on Jul 5, 2012, 11:55:58 PM
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" That solution would not solve much if anything. Players would be casting TP in advantage so they have it always opened if things go wrong. " I also remember that Diablo won the fight with my Summonmancer when I started playing D2. But later I learned about the game more. I started using other necromancer advantages like deceprify and clay golem to slow him down, paying more attention to stats including resistances, also learned how to heal my merc using keyboard. As a result, I was able to overcome him during my next encounters. Actually I mastered playing this build to the point where I could beat everything in the HC including Ubers. That gave me lots of fun and unforgettable moments. " There are many options to consider in such cases. I listed some of them in my earlier post. It's all about better preparation and learning how the boss works and find his weak sides. Of course, if one is underleveled or the skill tree is totally screwed up then it will cost more time to improve. " Ok, but there is difference between non-optimal bulids and screwed up builds. We cannot justify leaving such backdoors only because otherwise some poorly planned builds will not be able to deliver. |
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