Will bosses recover if you die or retreat?

"

Soulmancer wrote:

I really hope they will implement this to make bosses require strategy and skill as opposed to simple time and persistance. It seems dumb that the heroes can run away and heal at anytime while the major bosses aren't afforded the same luxury... It seems only fair if the player dies or retreats from the battle to recover that major bosses should do the same. Otherwise boss difficulty never becomes about challenge as it does about tedium. I really want to see this; it has been implemented in TL2 and Diablo 3

It would stop some people from progressing with certain builds. Not saying it would be bad to reset the fight, but if its already taking you so long you have to keep going to town, you are already greatly hindered. So either they spend a half hour on a boss, or they go back and try and grind items or do some crafting to make themselves more powerful, which would be required if this change was implemented. I'm sure its been brought up and been debated.

Just to point out. Runic developers of Torchlight II who lead the development ship for Diablo 1 & 2 are evolving with time. In Torchlight II they are implementing regenerative bosses and locking out town portals during these fights from what I've heard. I'd rather see Path of Exile evolve rather then rinse and repeating the same old flawed systems action rpg's have been using for the past 15 years... Such as exploitable/built in cheat boss mechanics. This is an evolving genre; not everything has to remain completely stagnant nor does it have to become the monstrosity of Dialo 3... Diablo 3 is flawed in many many ways but regenerating bosses aren't one of them; overpowered inferno elites on the other hand are frustrating.

How can I not take advantage of this? I am forced to. Sure retreating is my choice, I can stay and die... But that doesn't make a difference unless I am playing hardcore; returning to the boss after death to still find them injured is hardly something I have the option of doing? Are you asking me to log out of the game when I die and ask my friends to do the same when they die?

The ideal way of doing this would simply be to make bosses regenerate when you heal or die and balance them accordingly so they can be defeated appropriately... Rather than making all the bosses giant HP sinks with 2 hit kill attacks that force you to die/retreat frequently. Tone them down and make it so in order to defeat them you must do so on even terms... If you run or die; they heal themselves. Otherwise no boss in the game is challenging, they simply become tedious and trivial and should be removed from the game. Bosses should be more then just a treasure chest that fights back.

Keep in mind I am only requesting these for quest bosses, not every name/champion/elite enemy.

As SEOINAGE pointed out, this would eliminate a lot of builds' viability inherently.

2 things.

1- I'm starting to think you haven't progressed through very many difficulties in this game if you're still claiming that a 15% experience subtraction isn't significant, especially with how long it takes to get that much experience at high levels.

2- I fail to see how this suggestion would be a solution to this supposed problem. You're suggesting people get locked into fights with updated and weaker bosses to help (and here's where I get lost) separate these boss encounters from casual monsters? Wouldn't a nerf to their damage and health make for a more homogenized whole of encounters?

I don't think adding gimmicks to ARPG boss encounters is the solution, either. These games are simple in this regard for a reason. Sometimes evolving something is not always the right idea, especially if the formula has kept people playing a single game for over a decade...

"

Just to point out. Runic developers of Torchlight II who lead the development ship for Diablo 1 & 2 are evolving with time. In Torchlight II they are implementing regenerative bosses and locking out town portals during these fights from what I've heard.

Blizzard made many decions too, with D3, many of which we don't agree with. Blizzard basically borrowed a lot of WOW's mechanics, and although WOW's mechanics work for WOW, they are likely not as easy to translate into other games - nor should they necessarily be translated.

Making enemies regenerate when you "de-aggro" them was first implemented in WOW - I believe. At least for online games. Maybe EQ did it too, not sure.

I do agree that portaling during a boss fight is cheap - I never do it - but I don't think it should be disallowed - or if it is to be disallowed, it should only be in a specific league or a specific option for a custom league.

I'd support a separate league for more "hardcore" mechanics without actually being Hardcore. I just find aRPG's all seem to have this same tired mechanic that simply won't evolve. I want to see some innovation; action rpg's are about action and challenge that are suppose to test your skill. But most entries in the past 15 years have always given of epic and interesting bosses and then turn them into big HP sinks with overpowered attacks so you essentially either die and run back, or open a TP next to the boss so you can run away, heal and come back. I just want to see this evolve; bosses could simply be balanced so they are intended to be defeated without having you run to town 10 times. I want a challenge, not just a time sink to get loot. Its such a poorly designed concept for this genre of game and could easily be improved and balance. If it has to be in its own unique league then fair enough!

"

I just find aRPG's all seem to have this same tired mechanic that simply won't evolve

POE and TL2 are different games. POE and TQ are different games. POE and D2 are different games. Very different. I would say the "genre" is evolving -

but don't mistake "change" with "progress" or even that "progress is good". Sometimes, going back to the root of the matter is better than trying to extend it.

While you find it unfair players are portaling during boss fights, you may be in the minority. Of course, that's what I love about POE's league system - we can have lots of different rules for lots of different wants and needs. Having differing level of "hardcore" with different aspects of play emphasized - will be great (I'm assuming GGG will do this, and it's likely they will if there's enough player demand).

Suffice to say though, portaling is a legitimate tactic. If you don't like it, don't do it! If others do it, let them. Your accomplishments should really only matter to you. But if you do care, and if you can beat a boss without portaling, tell others about it. Show videos and share it - if you care that much about it. Others will respect you for it.

What I'm saying is - you don't need to force your views on everybody. You can make the case that it is cheap, but don't rob people of their fun. I think HC is hard enough with being able to portal in boss fights. POE's difficulty is getting better and better with every patch, becoming more difficult - but in a refined way.

Try not to mistake "stagnation" with "this game doesn't fit my expectations". Perhaps POE isn't for you, if this is such a big deal for you. That's something not enough people realize - that "aRPGs" are a niche in RPGs, which are becoming a very real "niche" in gaming. If you don't like POE, you may like another game (like TL2) more. It's your cohice to migrate to those games and NOT try to make every game for you.

The game should be challenging and the boss fights are very important part of it. I don't take any excuses why someone must visit town back and forth until whole life is drained from the boss drop by drop. If one cannot overcome particular enemy there are a few options to consider:
1. change your tactics
2. upgrade your equipment including skill gems
3. respec some skills for better survivalibity
4. team up with other players who also need the same quest done
5. take more potions with you

I do not support regen health on bosses/legendaries/champs when out of combat. Nothing is more frustrating then spending alot of time whittling a boss down, and almost having him. Then suddenly you die. Guess what? 15% less xp, and now you have to do it all over again. It's not a fun mechanic, and is too harsh of a penalty for mistakes.

Satisfaction comes from challenge and well done job. If there is no challenge then the game becomes boring and dull. At this stage, town portal can be used as backdoor to workaround almost whole challenge in case of boss fights.

"

Kokoro wrote:

Satisfaction comes from challenge and well done job. If there is no challenge then the game becomes boring and dull. At this stage, town portal can be used as backdoor to workaround almost whole challenge in case of boss fights.

I disagree with you completely. This is not a real life scenario. This is not a sport. I derive satisfaction from maximizing my character's potential and finding great items to do so. I almost derive satisfaction from making a build that functions well.

While I think that the bosses should provide an obstacle to overcome, I do not believe this difficulty should be forced onto every player simply because it fits your tastes. Truth is, the majority of people enjoy how it is currently and if you prefer it differently, then I would suggest purchasing your own league and tweaking this, or lobbying for this option if it isn't offered up front with new leagues - like the previous posts in this thread have mentioned.

Choice > being told how to play, even in tactics that some players find "cheap" or "exploitable." Their choices don't impact yours.