[NOAUCTIONHOUSE!!!] Fix trading but dont destroy the game with an Auctionhouse

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_rt_#4636 wrote:

Doesn't take too much analyzing to realize this game is heavily catered towards people who can invest huge amounts of time or money in the game.

No, I don't think GGG directly gets anything out of botters and RMT'ing.
It's more like RMT allows GGG to capitalize on people with a ton of money:

1) Make a "hard" game that takes dozens of hours to progress.
I don't really like to say this game is easy in this forum because some PoE players get offended by it, but the game is not hard. It just takes a shit ton of RNG-rolls and grinding.

2) Allow RMT'ers to exist

3) Let low self esteem rich people come to your game, RMT their way into a strong character, buy cosmetics and explode everything in shiny particles on their screen
(this is the part where GGG capitalizes on their design choices and not curbing RMT more efficiently)

IIRC there was a very famous person who did exactly that... can't remember the name now. Every time I mention it here, GGG's support deletes it from my mind...

You're forgetting the obvious....if the GGG Dev's themselves are the scammers/botters/RMT'ers then the current system makes perfect sense. It is weighted in their favor and basically blows anyone else out of the market since they can't be online 24/7 to accept trades. If the GGG Devs are the scammers then everything makes a lot more sense doesn't it?

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Tessderosa#0452 wrote:

You're forgetting the obvious....if the GGG Dev's themselves are the scammers/botters/RMT'ers then the current system makes perfect sense. It is weighted in their favor and basically blows anyone else out of the market since they can't be online 24/7 to accept trades. If the GGG Devs are the scammers then everything makes a lot more sense doesn't it?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I just believe there is no real incentive for GGG to curb RMT. On the contrary, they have more to gain from allowing it to exist than to ban it. It combines well with their outdated design choices and it doesn't really affect the majority of the playerbase that are not highly invested in trading and the league's economy.

Not to mention they inflate player numbers, which is great to appease investors and, now, Tencent superiors.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

Whats even your argument? Thats like everything works in real life and in any game.

Thats like saying "professional baseball is heavily catered towards people who can invest a lot of time into getting better and ppl that have money to do so even more".

My arguments are way back there, probably around page 3 or 4. But I won't waste any more time with you...
Who the hell compares a single player videogame with professional baseball?

One is a video game, single player, you do it on your free time to have fun.

The other is a real life sport, professional level, PvP setting, you do it for a living.

OP, you're either a troll or you're detached from reality...

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So you refute an argument no one made - okay ...

My bad, read it again and your statement makes even less sense.

GGG has to adjust the difficulty when an AH is available? Why?
The "power" someone can gain from trade is literally unchanged, only the trade itself takes less time.

So, where do you get your:

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Lets also not forget that such things also change how DEVs change their game. If ppl have good gear really fast with an AH - they will and have to adapt difficulty to that - but by that ppl that dont use it suddenly are at an even bigger disadvantage.

from? Make it make sense.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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So you refute an argument no one made - okay ...

My bad, read it again and your statement makes even less sense.

GGG has to adjust the difficulty when an AH is available? Why?
The "power" someone can gain from trade is literally unchanged, only the trade itself takes less time.

So, where do you get your:

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Lets also not forget that such things also change how DEVs change their game. If ppl have good gear really fast with an AH - they will and have to adapt difficulty to that - but by that ppl that dont use it suddenly are at an even bigger disadvantage.

from? Make it make sense.

Because when there is an AH a big part of the playerbase will have way more ideal gear while leveling since people can find and buy good items for their leveling build instantly.

Yes and no. In theory the power one can gain is the same - but thats not really the issue. The issue is how widespread that powergain and trade will be if everything is instantly and fast. People will put up almost any item they find and therefore prices of most leveling gear and non perfect gear will fall - while the prices for near perfect and endgame items will rise.


An AH simply isnt isolated to beeing a faster and better way to get items - it also changes how players play the game and how strong they are at any given point. The problem also isnt it existing but the change of scope it starts. As it is now the AH is rather timeconsuming, many dont even know about it and it would be frustrating to gear your char every few level with the best items.

If you make it easy and fast to use that changes - and that also changes the gameplay and how the game has to be adjusted to stay balanced.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

Because when there is an AH a big part of the playerbase will have way more ideal gear while leveling since people can find and buy good items for their leveling build instantly.

Yes and no. In theory the power one can gain is the same - but thats not really the issue. The issue is how widespread that powergain and trade will be if everything is instantly and fast. People will put up almost any item they find and therefore prices of most leveling gear and non perfect gear will fall - while the prices for near perfect and endgame items will rise.


An AH simply isnt isolated to beeing a faster and better way to get items - it also changes how players play the game and how strong they are at any given point. The problem also isnt it existing but the change of scope it starts. As it is now the AH is rather timeconsuming, many dont even know about it and it would be frustrating to gear your char every few level with the best items.

If you make it easy and fast to use that changes - and that also changes the gameplay and how the game has to be adjusted to stay balanced.

That's not how it works. Ppl don't get "way more ideal gear while levelling" because what you are able to get is based on your resources and your resources are determined by the economy.
Even if you sell more items because trade is overall better - most other ppl do too, so the overall "buy power" increases thus item prices go higher - then it balances out and you have the items you would have one way or another.

Bruh... listing more items because it's "easier" to do has no impact, ppl don't start listing trash for the lulz and non-trash items don't start dropping more often because the trading system changed. It's literally dictated by the game itself when we get how much power.

Holy, the only ppl who don't know how to use trade and would use an AH more often for power - even while levelling - are "newbies". Exactly the ppl that have the least impact on the market BUT would benefit the most because their gaming experience becomes better. They die less often, their progress is smoother, they learn how to value items etc.

There are two options:
1. You don't understand trade
2. You are someone who benefits from an highly abusive trade system to scam ppl or even RMT

Seems pretty simple. Rebalance the game for no trading or add an in-game AH. Or...both! Add the AH and let the SSF folks find stuff.

Just put in a buyout option that automates the purchase of the item and delivery to the buyer, and delivery of funds to the seller. Problem solved. It's not an auction house since no one is bidding on items. This isn't rocket science. Any entry level programmer could code this in a matter of an hour or two. People are fed up with the excuses for not improving trade.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

Also - no an auction house makes manipulation way easier. The difference is that an Site makes individual small scope manipulation easier - the AH on the other hand makes large scale manipulation easier.

I don't know if you're aware, but script tools exist to scrape, and then bots trade off the site as well. It makes no difference to RMT organizations if it's an AH or not, they will use scripts and tools to do the work for them.

Edit: my argument is that if you lower the bar of entry and ease-of-use to the system, more real people will engage with the system and do so faster than before. You're suggesting to raise the ceiling, making it easier for those who already use tools and scripts against TOS, to abuse those tools by, *checks notes*, mass reporting "bad actors". GGG doesn't have the manpower to regulate the trade site as it is.

Coming from OSRS, i kind of want to weigh in on this a little.

I keep reading people going "you can just buy end game gear like its nothing"

Am i missing something? I feel like i am personally a very, middle of the road player, i generally do all content and succeed to some degree, but i sure as hell don't have hundreds of divines to throw around getting BiS end game gear, so i dont get where this notion of people just, insta upgrading to end game gear comes from, because i feel like the average player who wants an AH, isn't going to have hundreds of currency to throw around. Even if i had an AH Right now on my trade account, i'd probably only save myself like, 20 or so hour of play time through convenience, which is the grand scene of a 500+ hour game, is nothing.

Secondly, to go back to that Game breaking thing, isn't that what we have leagues for? The AH, if implemented, can be introduced 1 league, tweaked, if it needs further development, removed for a league, worked on, reintroduced, it seems people are equating an AH to a be all end all system, when the reality is, the Trade site can always be backed onto if the AH needs to be further refined.

Lastly, and the reason i mention OSRS, is its strikes a very real world comparison with PoE

Old runescape, you'd stand in varrock, furiously typing to a sea of text, hoping someone bought your items, and in a sense, it was worse than PoE's system, because to do so actively stopped you from playing the game.

Then, the Grand exchange was introduced(or AH) and, while its not a perfect system, it works, realllllly well. People can still flip for profits, accessing gear you've saved up for is just a click away, and it didn't break the game in any way.

Just my 2 cents on the situation.