[NOAUCTIONHOUSE!!!] Fix trading but dont destroy the game with an Auctionhouse

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Soulscar1#4896 wrote:

My idea was simple. Items in your tab that get purchased instantly go to the designated buyers "public" premium stash with enough space.

After that the currency will go to Alva say if it is 2000 exalts or something you can just go pick it up whenever.

Each trade, the seller has a gold cost depending on the asking price. So a if you want a mirror for some random garbage you will have to pay 100 million gold to list it BUT will have 90% of this gold returned once purchased. Cancelling this trade will also return 90% of the gold. Again this is a concept not actual literal number suggestions.

After buying an item you cannot resell for 7 days UNLESS it is changed in a non-risk free way e.g. you buy a unique for 1 divine, you put sockets on it and +20% quality, this counts as "risk free" and will still be locked to the account for X period. However if a vaal orb, chaos orb even exalt orb is dropped on it then this can be resold. Flipping items and bots rip off newer players on a minute by minute basis in POE and POE 2 this needs to end.

GGG need to also have a system of recommended price listing, I am sick of 3rd party apps to fill gaps in the game when it should already be part of POE after a decade +.

Solid ideas.

My suggestion was to prompt the seller with a checkbox ingame to "okay" a trade without the need to meet in character - if he doesn't click yes, item gets delisted. You go a bit further and I'd welcome that.

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Soulscar1#4896 wrote:

My idea was simple. Items in your tab that get purchased instantly go to the designated buyers "public" premium stash with enough space.

After that the currency will go to Alva say if it is 2000 exalts or something you can just go pick it up whenever.

Each trade, the seller has a gold cost depending on the asking price. So a if you want a mirror for some random garbage you will have to pay 100 million gold to list it BUT will have 90% of this gold returned once purchased. Cancelling this trade will also return 90% of the gold. Again this is a concept not actual literal number suggestions.

After buying an item you cannot resell for 7 days UNLESS it is changed in a non-risk free way e.g. you buy a unique for 1 divine, you put sockets on it and +20% quality, this counts as "risk free" and will still be locked to the account for X period. However if a vaal orb, chaos orb even exalt orb is dropped on it then this can be resold. Flipping items and bots rip off newer players on a minute by minute basis in POE and POE 2 this needs to end.

GGG need to also have a system of recommended price listing, I am sick of 3rd party apps to fill gaps in the game when it should already be part of POE after a decade +.

The point is to improve trade and not ruin it. Your technical suggestion aside because that's something GGG has to figure out depending on the tools they have, locking items, for whatever reason, is completely against everything ppl and GGG like about trade.
If someone wants to "play the market" and flip items - let them. This has literally no effect on you.
For newer players who listed items too low, that's a thing they have to learn.

With your "lock" before reselling you devalue items a lot. Like A LOT.

Imagine you bought in the first days a weapon that was worth 2 div because of the stats and rarity at this point, but you cannot re-sell it until 7 days pass. In a week, your "2 div" item can drop so low, it's basically not worth the time to sell it anymore.

The market gets WAY smaller, good items get even more expensive (so impossible to get for most ppl), items will "rott" in stashes or even vendored and so on.

Just make an AH. Ppl list items and ppl can buy out items, the end. No need to reinvent the wheel.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Just make an AH. Ppl list items and ppl can buy out items, the end. No need to reinvent the wheel.

+1

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:
Just make an AH. Ppl list items and ppl can buy out items, the end. No need to reinvent the wheel.


+1

+2

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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Soulscar1#4896 wrote:

My idea was simple. Items in your tab that get purchased instantly go to the designated buyers "public" premium stash with enough space.

After that the currency will go to Alva say if it is 2000 exalts or something you can just go pick it up whenever.

Each trade, the seller has a gold cost depending on the asking price. So a if you want a mirror for some random garbage you will have to pay 100 million gold to list it BUT will have 90% of this gold returned once purchased. Cancelling this trade will also return 90% of the gold. Again this is a concept not actual literal number suggestions.

After buying an item you cannot resell for 7 days UNLESS it is changed in a non-risk free way e.g. you buy a unique for 1 divine, you put sockets on it and +20% quality, this counts as "risk free" and will still be locked to the account for X period. However if a vaal orb, chaos orb even exalt orb is dropped on it then this can be resold. Flipping items and bots rip off newer players on a minute by minute basis in POE and POE 2 this needs to end.

GGG need to also have a system of recommended price listing, I am sick of 3rd party apps to fill gaps in the game when it should already be part of POE after a decade +.

The point is to improve trade and not ruin it. Your technical suggestion aside because that's something GGG has to figure out depending on the tools they have, locking items, for whatever reason, is completely against everything ppl and GGG like about trade.
If someone wants to "play the market" and flip items - let them. This has literally no effect on you.
For newer players who listed items too low, that's a thing they have to learn.

With your "lock" before reselling you devalue items a lot. Like A LOT.

Imagine you bought in the first days a weapon that was worth 2 div because of the stats and rarity at this point, but you cannot re-sell it until 7 days pass. In a week, your "2 div" item can drop so low, it's basically not worth the time to sell it anymore.

The market gets WAY smaller, good items get even more expensive (so impossible to get for most ppl), items will "rott" in stashes or even vendored and so on.

Just make an AH. Ppl list items and ppl can buy out items, the end. No need to reinvent the wheel.

I buy items I need to improve my build not to capitalize on others ignorance. That is what con artists do. Flipping is done by bots, currency sellers and macro AFK traders, this needs to END!

But fair enough. By GGG adding a "recommended" selling prices depending on market trends would go quite along way to remedy this. If a third party app can do it then so can GGG.

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HashBob#0163 wrote:

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

I think this was best shown by Diablo 3 - it damaged the game so much that they actually removed it - even tough they even profited from the sales if i remember correctly.

This you?

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

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HashBob#0163 wrote:

I think the OP has conflated in-game auction house with real-money auction houses.

We want to trade virtual currency for items, not my actual income.

Neither solution solves the real money trading, which is what I think the OP is concerned about. If you want to stop real money trading start by targeting TFT lmao.

Case and point, one of the solutions provided by OP is to restrict trading windows. What if we go to a campaign map and I just.. drop a mirror-tier item for the guy and he drops me currency or whatever? Are we going to stop people from being able to drop items on the ground now because we're in a party? Lol. Lmao, even.

No i havent - D3 had both.

The D3 auction house that "damaged the game even though they made a profit from it (if you remember correctly)" that you speak of was a real-money trading auction house. Never in the history of all that is true did the in-game, virtual, AH damage the game in any way.

It did damage it beyond repair.


Many people in this thread also fail to understand the difference of a Loot-driven ARPG and a MMORPG like WOW.

https://www.thegamer.com/diablo-3-fail-real-money-auction-house/

You were able to buy with real money - but also with ingame currency.




Ther problem that many encountered - including me - fast was that you suddenly had all the items for leveling at your disposal - you instantly were able to buy almost any item you wanted for leveling instantly and in reality the chance of you ever finding something even remotely as good while leveling was almost zero.

So in the end the complete grind for gear loop of such ARPGs was suddenly gone since finding your items yourself neither was efficient nur really fun knowing you can buy that almost perfect leveling gear for almost nothing.

The other thing that happened was that extremely rare items got so absurdely expensive that you were only able to buy them with real money - which lead to people actually stopping to play the game for fun but as some sort of business - people actually made money with the RMAH and i think Blizzard also got a cut if i remember correctly.


a geardriven ARPG simply doesnt work well with an AH that makes everything instantly avaliable and cheap

It also makes it somewhat pay to win - since suddenly getting the best gear doesnt even require any time invested in looking for items - talking to players etc.


Also a AH is way easier to manipulate than something like the Trading-Website with having to meet players.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

a geardriven ARPG simply doesnt work well with an AH that makes everything instantly avaliable and cheap

It also makes it somewhat pay to win - since suddenly getting the best gear doesnt even require any time invested in looking for items - talking to players etc.


Also a AH is way easier to manipulate than something like the Trading-Website with having to meet players.

Explain HOW it would be easier to manipulate via AH than current PoE-trading.

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

Ther problem that many encountered - including me - fast was that you suddenly had all the items for leveling at your disposal - you instantly were able to buy almost any item you wanted for leveling instantly and in reality the chance of you ever finding something even remotely as good while leveling was almost zero.

No one forced you to use the AH to buy those items, just as no one forces you to play trade league in PoE. Yes it is more optimal, but that isn't how the game gets broken.

However, I agree that I wish SSF was easier to get player power compared to the current disparity between SSF and Trade in terms of ease-of-access to player power. Last Epoch has an "okay" system for this with their faction designs.

On the other side, that doesn't mean an AH is inherently bad for the game. And just FYI, buying items with real world money existed LONG before D3's auction house. There were trade forums for D2 many many moons ago, my young zoomer. The problem of RMT (real-money trading) doesn't exist or disappear with or without AH. It exists because players are willing to go to lengths to use those services behind the backs of the community and development team.

On a fundamental note, I disagree with the notion that AH's break the game. That just objectively isn't true. FOMO for not interacting the AH does not equate to "game bad". I do wish SSF was better and didn't feel so bad to compare with trade/AH leagues, but that isn't what we have, that isn't what you're talking about, and that isn't going to change any time soon I would imagine. Players interacting and trading is more desirable (for most players), and therefor brings more players and income to the development team.

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HashBob#0163 wrote:

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

Ther problem that many encountered - including me - fast was that you suddenly had all the items for leveling at your disposal - you instantly were able to buy almost any item you wanted for leveling instantly and in reality the chance of you ever finding something even remotely as good while leveling was almost zero.

No one forced you to use the AH to buy those items, just as no one forces you to play trade league in PoE. Yes it is more optimal, but that isn't how the game gets broken.

However, I agree that I wish SSF was easier to get player power compared to the current disparity between SSF and Trade in terms of ease-of-access to player power. Last Epoch has an "okay" system for this with their faction designs.

On the other side, that doesn't mean an AH is inherently bad for the game. And just FYI, buying items with real world money existed LONG before D3's auction house. There were trade forums for D2 many many moons ago, my young zoomer. The problem of RMT (real-money trading) doesn't exist or disappear with or without AH. It exists because players are willing to go to lengths to use those services behind the backs of the community and development team.

On a fundamental note, I disagree with the notion that AH's break the game. That just objectively isn't true. FOMO for not interacting the AH does not equate to "game bad". I do wish SSF was better and didn't feel so bad to compare with trade/AH leagues, but that isn't what we have, that isn't what you're talking about, and that isn't going to change any time soon I would imagine. Players interacting and trading is more desirable (for most players), and therefor brings more players and income to the development team.

This.

People will always find a way to break it and ppl will always be able to RMT, but an improvement to the system itself - so the majority (not breaking trade or RMTing) has a better time - is more important.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

a geardriven ARPG simply doesnt work well with an AH that makes everything instantly avaliable and cheap

It also makes it somewhat pay to win - since suddenly getting the best gear doesnt even require any time invested in looking for items - talking to players etc.


Also a AH is way easier to manipulate than something like the Trading-Website with having to meet players.

Explain HOW it would be easier to manipulate via AH than current PoE-trading.

To manipulate the current Trading you have to interact a lot with other people. You have to meet every single other person and even talk to them to some extent and many wont even reply etc. - not to mention teleporting to the wrong area etc. - so it takes also way more time and effort. This is probably also way harder to automate - you may can monitor items - but actually manipulating the market is a lot more work.

In a AH on the other hand you can instantly buy huge ammounts of items at once and you can automate that process pretty good - and its also fast.


For example - if i want to make Item XY more rare and valuable:

Trade-Site:
- filter all items offered atm
- contact and meet up with every single person - many probably not even responding or starting interaction
- you cant really do this well with bots and bots also cant interact with multiple ppl at once
- prices are very varied since its hard for ppl to see trends etc. fast since there are often so many different items (in an AH you see the lowest price instantly and how many are offered at that price - so you instantly know when something is priced wrong - also if there is instant buy ppl also wouldnt price them incorrectly cheap since they would loose orbs)


AH:
- Search for all Items of Type XY instantly
- Buy all Items under the price of XY and put them up instantly with Price XY+ again
- since everyone can isntantly see those changes other people will follow this instantly also charging higher prices and suddenly the 1000 Items you bought are worth more
- this works really fast and well and probably even completely automated





So for example - in games with AH it often happened - depending on the difference between rich and poor players. That for example Ressource XY was offered starting at 10 up to 30 because people tried to sell their stuff fast.

Someone bought all items for 10-30 instantly and put them back in the AH for 35 manipulating the market almost instantly. Other people see the new price and price above or a bit below and just like that you completely changed the price of an item.