Dear GGG: You NEED to watch this video! I cannot emphasize this enough! WATCH THIS!

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Felcoreous#7450 wrote:

The "fact" checking in the video is all wrong. When he goes into steam and shows people leaving every 3 months he doesn't understand how seasons work. No one wants to play the same content forever--that is true--but we don't GGG pops out seasons we play and we quit. Most of us just wait for new content. Everone playing this will get bored move to another game and be back when there is a content update. The world has spoken and if we really hated this we wouldn't be back when content is added.

that's the thing. It's only catered to who you call "we"

this game hasn't done what it said it would do. branching out or at least changing the gameplay was the goal and it's failed.

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Pvarien#7490 wrote:

Bro, what are you on? Facts are facts he laid them out.

Diablo 2's endgame was boss runs and uber farms, as fast as possible......

PoE 1? Launched in a Beta state the end game there? Docks over and over and over again as fast as possible once again, there was no change.

D3 D4? How are they not ARPG's they are literally in the line that PoE took its lineage from?

Ok, so what, TitanQuest? Loot Runs, Grimdawn? Loot Runs, it just is what it is.

Maybe PoE2 breaks the mold and becomes something different but denying facts is a little odd.

Diablo 2 only endgame are uber bosses, PvP and leveling to 99. As much as I love D2 that's not really endgame. PoE1? Mapping was always endgame (or at least after release, in early alpha it had Maelstrom of Chaos). I said before zoom builds existed in PoE1 but they were limited to pre-map content and that is fine. If zoom builds could only do garbage low level content they wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that they can do high end content and in fact they are THE ONLY way to do high end content, so not only they are faster, certain loot is also gated behind being fast and certain content rewards scale exponentially with clear speed. D3 and D4 only share name with Diablo, they have absolutely nothing in common other than name. Titan Quest, yes but again loot isn't gated behind being fast. Same with Grim Dawn and GD is pretty slow paced game overall, even fastest builds are nowhere close even to slow PoE builds.

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toxiitea#5772 wrote:

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Felcoreous#7450 wrote:

The "fact" checking in the video is all wrong. When he goes into steam and shows people leaving every 3 months he doesn't understand how seasons work. No one wants to play the same content forever--that is true--but we don't GGG pops out seasons we play and we quit. Most of us just wait for new content. Everone playing this will get bored move to another game and be back when there is a content update. The world has spoken and if we really hated this we wouldn't be back when content is added.

that's the thing. It's only catered to who you call "we"

this game hasn't done what it said it would do. branching out or at least changing the gameplay was the goal and it's failed.

Again, to be fair, 10 year game vs 1 month game, you have less than half the content yet and 9 years and 11 months less of polish.

I personally think there is A LOT of cards still in the pipe for John and Mark to play that they believe they will influence the game enough to produce the vision they seek.

We just don't have it yet, honestly the best approach is to voice your feedback but give them time as they work through the process.

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DemonikPath#1311 wrote:

And your point? You started 3 years after I quit PoE and by the time you started PoE already existed for 10 years. It only started to go downhill in 2016. PoE has started blowing up since 2015.

My point I guess would be if you quit POE in 2019 why are you still hanging around on the forums debating people? Also in 2016 POE still had maybe 30k players at its peaks. By 2019 that number was over 100k per season so you basically quit right when it started to actually blow up. Last year it hit 250k with Kalguur, 10x what it was in 2016...

POE 2 is still over 200k per day 45 days after launch, which is nuts...

My point is that what makes a game good is subjective but numbers dont lie. I want to see the curve of power corrected in POE 2, I want lots of nerfs for many broken things, and I want pinnacle bossing to be meaningful. I actually want boss HP to scale with average player DPS over the lifetime of the character so that no matter what you do, its always going to take time to kill a pinnacle boss and avoiding doing mechanics would be made impossible. But I do not want to slog around in maps painstakingly killing white mobs after 200 hours and hundreds of divs in investment. Save that for acts.

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Pvarien#7490 wrote:

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

Yes the guy is right.
PoE1 and 2 endgame, same for d4, is horrible. Running boring maps 24/7, delete it all and the game would increase in players.
Just make endgame a ng+ with higher level harder campaign, give bosses better AI/new moves and do that until level 100 and then a lv100 ng+ with 100+ enemies. Then you are done, play new char or call it quits.

No offense, but this literally sounds like the worst idea I've ever heard to me.

Most people hate replaying campaigns every season, I don't think that game would live long brotha.

Playercounts each season beg to differ, the people you think of are those who want to sell services or are less than 5% of the players returning each league. Most players don't want to look at a second screen because how braindead the endgame is.

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

Playercounts each season beg to differ, the people you think of are those who want to sell services or are less than 5% of the players returning each league. Most players don't want to look at a second screen because how braindead the endgame is.

Acts are literally just maps though, and maps are act areas. Acts are maps but instead of just mapping, you have to go into a town and click through dialogue that almost nobody reads anyways. And it takes 10x longer to do a act map than an end game map. But my point is that POE 1 and POE 2 is mapping from level 1 to level 100. If anything acts are just maps with little to no league mechanics and a fraction of the monsters.

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

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Pvarien#7490 wrote:

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

Yes the guy is right.
PoE1 and 2 endgame, same for d4, is horrible. Running boring maps 24/7, delete it all and the game would increase in players.
Just make endgame a ng+ with higher level harder campaign, give bosses better AI/new moves and do that until level 100 and then a lv100 ng+ with 100+ enemies. Then you are done, play new char or call it quits.

No offense, but this literally sounds like the worst idea I've ever heard to me.

Most people hate replaying campaigns every season, I don't think that game would live long brotha.

Playercounts each season beg to differ, the people you think of are those who want to sell services or are less than 5% of the players returning each league. Most players don't want to look at a second screen because how braindead the endgame is.

Hey that may be, and I'm for sure not a stat watcher or a representative speaking for the entire playerbase, I can only comment on what I personally feel and what I see as reflections from other folks I've interacted with.

For myself, I replay campaigns for a new season not because I'm particularly excited to do it, but because I want to be a part of the new season, the end game is always the call and the campaign is simply a roadblock to get there.

+1 Shinshin
Guy hits the nail on the head.

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Waitn4D4#0477 wrote:

My point I guess would be if you quit POE in 2019 why are you still hanging around on the forums debating people? Also in 2016 POE still had maybe 30k players at its peaks. By 2019 that number was over 100k per season so you basically quit right when it started to actually blow up. Last year it hit 250k with Kalguur, 10x what it was in 2016...

POE 2 is still over 200k per day 45 days after launch, which is nuts...

My point is that what makes a game good is subjective but numbers dont lie. I want to see the curve of power corrected in POE 2, I want lots of nerfs for many broken things, and I want pinnacle bossing to be meaningful. I actually want boss HP to scale with average player DPS over the lifetime of the character so that no matter what you do, its always going to take time to kill a pinnacle boss and avoiding doing mechanics would be made impossible. But I do not want to slog around in maps painstakingly killing white mobs after 200 hours and hundreds of divs in investment. Save that for acts.

Most of these 200k are in campaign. Pretty much everyone who gets to endgame quits PoE2 very soon after. I'm not hanging around forums, I quit after Delve because I couldn't stand the state of the game anymore and returned in 2019 after PoE2 announcement, only to remember why I hated PoE1 state and hated it even more due to Legion and Harvest, so I quit again. I wanted to check Ruthless because that's something I wanted but I didn't have time at the time to play and looking into it - in some regards they went too far and in some not far enough, so instead I waited for PoE2 because it was announced it's going to be a separate game, and every dev talk gave me hope we'll have an actually good game. And it was - in campaign. Also you're only counting steam numbers, majority of players were not using steam. Video also makes that mistake, which is one the things I disagree with, because it doesn't show the full picture. They used to keep players through entire league early on, Steam numbers won't show that because Steam integration was absolutely terrible, so most people who stayed would switch to standalone. But after game started to become what it is now leagues started to feel like a ghost town after a month.

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Map sustain sucks as a noob

I had that problem. New to POE. Melee Chronomancer is a weak build. I died too often in maps and had heavy map sustain problems.
They really didn't factor in deaths.

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Barely any mechanics explained

Same. As a POE noob you don't understand the endgame. You're supposed to just run maps, but you can't even do that as a noob. Plus you can't just try those mechanics, because you have only one life.

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Endgame is far too aggressive, so AOE spam is the only solution

Any build without AOE spam isn't endgame viable. GGG failed to strike a balance there.

Nothing will change. What we play now is POE2. "But they will xyz!" No, they won't.