Dear GGG: You NEED to watch this video! I cannot emphasize this enough! WATCH THIS!

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brusin#1479 wrote:

So to put it in even simpler terms:

It's not that the game has one or two or a dozen of overpowered builds. That'd be a minor easily fixable issue.

The game actually INCENTIVIZES one particular style of builds - AOE blasting and by doing that it punishes all the rest.
The game also has all these puzzle pieces to build something different - there's dots, tools for kiting, blocking damage, leeching, crowd control etc etc etc - even now in EA the game has variety.
But does the endgame structure accommodate all this variety? NO ABSOLUTELY NOT
And the devs' response - it's the power fantasy. I'm sorry but what about the power fantasy of let's say being super tanky? The power fantasy of dotting a huge horde of mobs and slowly watching them die while being out of their reach? Those are some popular rpg power fantasies btw. Nope... only our one power fantasy is cool.

I'm sorry but this feels like extremely amateurish game design. The whole 'power fantasy' argument is so weak I sometimes can't even believe that's what they actually opt to counter criticisms with...

so sad

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

more damage, speed and aoe is always going to be better. thats not a failure of game design, its a constant. theres a reason we started with our bare hands and felt a need to design nuclear bombs. even in a 1 on 1 fight with a monster more damage, speed and aoe is always going to be better. the fact this is a game where you can move and you kill monsters means speed, damage and aoe are automatically incentivised.


the design space is how much aoe, speed and damage you let people have, where on the curve of getting more of those things builds should sit as they progress. thats where the games balance is currently wrong, and they know its wrong.

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ScandiDiver#0604 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

more damage, speed and aoe is always going to be better. thats not a failure of game design, its a constant. theres a reason we started with our bare hands and felt a need to design nuclear bombs. even in a 1 on 1 fight with a monster more damage, speed and aoe is always going to be better. the fact this is a game where you can move and you kill monsters means speed, damage and aoe are automatically incentivised.


the design space is how much aoe, speed and damage you let people have, where on the curve of getting more of those things builds should sit as they progress. thats where the games balance is currently wrong, and they know its wrong.

No its not, what you just wrote like it was a fact are completely false. Many not only RPGs, but games in general have their AoE and Single Target attacks balanced in a way both have their significant place and benifit in the game.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

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ScandiDiver#0604 wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

more damage, speed and aoe is always going to be better. thats not a failure of game design, its a constant. theres a reason we started with our bare hands and felt a need to design nuclear bombs. even in a 1 on 1 fight with a monster more damage, speed and aoe is always going to be better. the fact this is a game where you can move and you kill monsters means speed, damage and aoe are automatically incentivised.


the design space is how much aoe, speed and damage you let people have, where on the curve of getting more of those things builds should sit as they progress. thats where the games balance is currently wrong, and they know its wrong.

No its not, what you just wrote like it was a fact are completely false. Many not only RPGs, but games in general have their AoE and Single Target attacks balanced in a way both have their significant place and benifit in the game.

that doesnt contradict what i said at all. nothing you said makes anything i said wrong.

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ScandiDiver#0604 wrote:

more damage, speed and aoe is always going to be better.

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ScandiDiver#0604 wrote:

theres a reason we started with our bare hands and felt a need to design nuclear bombs

"

This has to be stated clearly and with as few words as possible. Some people aren't getting the main point and get sidetracked arguing over the consequences and not the main reason.

Currently the endgame mechanics and whole endgame structure reward two things:
1. Huge AOE blasting.
2. One shotting (quickly melting) big single targets.

Why?
1. Look at breaches, delirium, ritual and pack size, speed, power of mobs in general.
2. Look at bosses one shotting players back, so if you don't melt the boss as quickly as possible you give them more time to one shot you.

What if you can't?
1. If you can't aoe blast hordes of enemies the following happens: Delirium\Breach ends prematurely not giving rewards, ritual rips you because they spawn on top of you along with a tornado or volatile plants.
2. The bosses one shot you eventually once you make a mistake.

What if you can?
1. You get rewarded by breaches and not even see the rippy ritual mechanics.
2. You minimize engagement with boss mechanics that can one shot you.

Why is this bad?
1. No matter what your build is, it absolutely MUST be good at AOE blasting and one shotting bosses. You may call it whatever, chronomancer hammer of the gods, chayula whatever, gemling stat stacker, comet combo - it can be called absolutely whatever you want. BUT it is essentially the SAME build - it does aoe blasting, it kills bosses quickly. IF it isn't - the game DOES NOT ACCOMODATE IT. So there's ONE VIABLE ENDGAME BUILD - the only thing that varies is its name and the color of the explosions you do. The playstyle is the same. (There's also minions to be fair but that's it).

3. Counter intuitive design. Glass cannon style of character should be fast, powerful but also RISKY. That's the definition of stacking damage in ANY GAME - you become less tanky the more you double down on damage. As it is, it's actually LESS risky to spec heavily into aoe blasting. You kill things super fast AND you die less often because you kill them so fast they can't even get an attack off. Actually building tanky is MORE RISKY - the enemies are super fast and powerful, and they have to be to pose even a semblance of a threat to the blasters. So the longer you let them live the more room they have to one shot you. So by trying to build something with an emphasis on survivability you actually DO THE OPPOSITE.

2. As these 'Meta builds' get refined, as people are able to jam more health and ES into blaster builds the devs are FORCED to add more and more FAST and UNFAIR one shots. So as time goes on it becomes harder to pivot. Your whole gameplay devolves into AOE one shotting the mobs from range VS them one shotting you if you have to hesistate to blast them for half a second. The powercreep is gonna be INSANE. Back in 2012 I've played poe 1 hardcore closed (I think) beta and when I quit some year(s) later it still wasn't as dumb as poe 2 is now, not nearly. The speed at which the game is getting 'solved' is INSANE. IF devs don't pivot the the NEXT BIG GAME PATCH, the meta WILL be unsalvageable unless you scrap the whole thing and start over. So what this means is that things will keep getting EVEN WORSE without anyone having any control over it.

Well that was my attempt at putting it as simply and briefly as possible. Maybe someone else can do it better but for now I'm sorry but if you struggle to comprehend the above eat a sugary snack or something idk

it's sad

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there's ONE VIABLE ENDGAME BUILD - the only thing that varies is its name and the color of the explosions you do. The playstyle is the same. (There's also minions to be fair but that's it).