It's 2025, and XP Penalties on Death Still Exist?

I understand why people dislike the XP penalty. What I struggle to understand, is why it "belongs in the past" or what it has to do with 2025. Why was XP penalty better or more time appropriate in the past?

"

Phrazz#3529 wrote:

I understand why people dislike the XP penalty. What I struggle to understand, is why it "belongs in the past" or what it has to do with 2025. Why was XP penalty better or more time appropriate in the past?

XP Penalties started with Text Based MUD's - games like Multi-Users-in-Middle-Earth (MUME). It wasn't really possible to design challenging PvE content, and players would play the same character indefinitely. Reaching max level wasn't really hard, and there wasn't a lot of "endgame" content, so players would bounce around near max level. Also, there was usually a lesser penalty to PvP combat, to give a bit of a gambling edge to that part of the game.

When Graphical MUD's like Ultima Online and Everquest came along, they kept the mechanic. You could already see the problems with it then, though. Parties would not accept people without "perfect" characters, and would avoid a lot of the content as the price for dying was too great. Then they let priests restore a lot of the lost exp with a rez, then they increased the penalty...

Modern MMO's have reduced the penalty a lot or removed it entirely. In modern games, you can gate progress by simply having challenging content. You don't need to artificially prolong the game. There's also enough content at endgame to keep players engaged without having to go through the cycle of death/regain levels.

Terrible idea to remove exp penalty, GGG knows this, and there is no argument to be made.

"

Phrazz#3529 wrote:

I understand why people dislike the XP penalty. What I struggle to understand, is why it "belongs in the past" or what it has to do with 2025. Why was XP penalty better or more time appropriate in the past?

Because it is quite literally an old mentality that most of the rest of the industry has gone away from.

In ye olden days video games (primarily arcade machines) were designed to be deliberately difficult so you would keep pumping quarters into the machine. Some of these developers brought their skills into the PC space and started combining ideas from their tabletop gaming sessions and created the first RPGs.

Permadeth wasn't necessarily as fun in those conditions but was a pretty common occurrence. One lesser penalty created was the innovation to lose XP or even entire levels on death and respawn. That idea carried forward as games became more advanced such as Diablo, and the spiritual predecessor to PoE Diablo II.

As gaming has become more popular and widespread the industry as a whole has moved away from negative progression as a punishment for failure. Thus when we say it is an old and outdated mechanic we mean in the context of the modern era it is an OLD and OUTDATED mechanic that the rest of the industry has rightfully left behind.

"

Climet#7103 wrote:

Terrible idea to remove exp penalty, GGG knows this, and there is no argument to be made.

kekw

I'm curious what builds people are running where 10 passives will make or break the build since xp loss is pretty manageable until you get into the 90s or do you just want the achievement of saying you got to level 100? Which would be a better served when there is a steep cost to dieing and you can't just bot or death run your way to max level.

"

xpose#1651 wrote:

I'm curious what builds people are running where 10 passives will make or break the build since xp loss is pretty manageable until you get into the 90s or do you just want the achievement of saying you got to level 100? Which would be a better served when there is a steep cost to dieing and you can't just bot or death run your way to max level.

You can bot your way to max level now. In fact the XP penalty makes the climb easier - sure it may take longer, but players will just stick to the easier content to avoid the penalty, rather than play the challenging stuff where they might die.

If GGG keeps the XP penalty, to me that's a strong sign they will be selling some sort of time savers or character boosts.

"GGG would never do that! Path of Exile not pay to win, etc..."

That was a different game from a different time made by a different company. Hopefully, they won't walk down that dark path, but creating a grind just to sell the solution? I've seen that dance before.

Good luck getting GGG to change... anything.

They don't make their games with the playerbase in mind. They make them with an obsession to make sure players play the game they way THEY want them to be played...

Fun is secondary.

"

Bacon_Overlord#1834 wrote:

Good luck getting GGG to change... anything.

They don't make their games with the playerbase in mind. They make them with an obsession to make sure players play the game they way THEY want them to be played...

Fun is secondary.

Until their devs actually experience the issues themselves. Which is exactly what happened for trade to be implemented.

D4 doesn't have xp penalty - does it lead to more player retention?

I don't think so.

XP penalty has never been an issue for PoE1, so its unlikely they will change it for PoE2.