It's 2025, and XP Penalties on Death Still Exist?

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dkp#0523 wrote:

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

350k people disagree thus far, and I'm sorry you're not one of them.

We'll never know the true numbers unless GGG releases them, but it's probably closer to 1 million.

I mean, not wrong - but 350k (or so, i'm not up on the minute to minute) is a number we DO have data for, and that's big enough for me to feel confident about my stand vs one dissenter. :D

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Exp loss is bad for the game and it only exists to annoy players and waste their time, no other purpose. This is an objective fact.

So deleting it would only improve the game, this is an objective fact.

And if they triple-down on "The Vision" this game is just gonna die in obscurity and have Ruthless player numbers, because its not fun and people don't want to play unfun games. It's that simple.

It has been a month. You didn't stop doom-saying since the beginning of EA. Are you going to wait 20 years of successful PoE2 to finally say "haha ! I was right, the game is dying !!1!"

You aren't objective. And you aren't a prophet either. Please move on.

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

I love how everyone telling you they won't remove it has played PoE1 for years, bought stuff in the shops, fully accepted it as part of the game.

And along you come, saying "It's gonna have to (change)..."

Sounds like you'd be happy playing Path of Exile.

This is a different game, with a different design philosophy.

Player skill should matter. The XP penalty makes players risk-averse and prevents the devs from designing challenging content.

Dont listen to him, he is trolling here since the first day.
He is a player who played POE 1 ONLY with the most OP builds. Look into his account and look in YT which builds were OP at this time.

It's needs to go. I am over 90 with 2 chars now. And this mechanic fucks it up.
All the defense and resistences dont help you. Just believe me. I tried it at all.
With 10 k armor and Stunbuilds and all resis capped with block and evasion. Nothing helped ! Just the pure hard DMG

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Talamor1#0630 wrote:

Please GGG, do not listen to those who ask you to remove the experience penalty. Don't make this game any worse than it already is.

xp penalty is the reason why this game remains competitive for so long and ensures player retention for several weeks.

You lose experience if you die.
You grind for hours to buy better equipment to not die again and level up. And thanks to your extra level, you get an extra skill point which makes you even stronger, and which will allow you to grind even more to buy even better equipment to level up, etc...

without xp penalty, you no longer need to buy better equipment.
All you have to do is launch a bunch of maps and farm them like a brainless person without even looking at your screen. Even if your build sucks, you'll still end up levelling up to level 100...

Thanks to the penalty, you're rewarded if you have a reliable, solid enough build, and if your playing style allows you to avoid death.

This is just so completely wrong.

1) Path of Exile 2 is not a competitive game. You are not competing against other players. It is a PvE game with a ladder element to highlight realistically unobtainable builds. Therefore, keeping the game competitive is a moot point.

2) You grind for hours in the endgame for better gear, not to level up. One level in the endgame barely means anything. If you are in a position to where you get a massive power spike from a level after 90, the build is bricked.

3) Because of how utterly time wasting the gambling craft system is, and how dying to one-shots sets you back hours because of map node planning, you end up being forced to use the trading system to get the gear you need regardless. You farm for currency to then trade with players. This creates a toxic situation where you are trying your best to game the drop rates, such as inviting people to your group who have massively increased magic find, the unique grave gloves and go AFK. This ruins the game economy, and subsequently 'crafting' for everyone else because of how everything ties together. What a great system!

"All you have to do is launch a bunch of maps and farm them like a brainless person without even looking at your screen. Even if your build sucks, you'll still end up levelling up to level 100..." This is already happening due to the aforementioned reason.

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Hecktoor#2386 wrote:

Dont listen to him, he is trolling here since the first day.
He is a player who played POE 1 ONLY with the most OP builds. Look into his account and look in YT which builds were OP at this time.

It's needs to go. I am over 90 with 2 chars now. And this mechanic fucks it up.
All the defense and resistences dont help you. Just believe me. I tried it at all.
With 10 k armor and Stunbuilds and all resis capped with block and evasion. Nothing helped ! Just the pure hard DMG

Yeah, I used build guides a lot in PoE1. I still had to play the game. I still had to learn all the mechanics. I never one-shot ubers. Hell, there's three ubers I STILL HAVEN'T BEATEN.

And I never played "the most OP builds" it was like basic bladestorm/blade blast, basic lightning strike, basic frost blades trickster...nothing in the billions of damage or anything.

"All the defense and resistences dont help you. Just believe me. I tried it at all.

Just believe you? Well that's not my experience at all. Upgrading defense and resists has lowered my deaths so much that I'm level 95 now. Weird how you don't just get to say shit for everyone as gospel truth. Go fuck yourself.

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Talamor1#0630 wrote:

xp penalty is the reason why this game remains competitive for so long and ensures player retention for several weeks.

I don't want to discuss the same point in multiple threads but you posted the same thing in the other thread so I will challenge it here also.

Your claim taken literally, that this XP loss is the reason POE1 was successful is prima facie ridiculous. A more reasonable claim that it is one of the reasons is a more reasonable but still highly dubious claim.

Honest question, if it were taken out and the XP curve changed to make the last 10 levels take longer, would you be so upset that you would stop playing?

There is so much disregard for how strongly negative people feel about this, the counter being "well it's actually a good feature here's why...".

It's like the emperor's new clothes - everyone else can see how obviously bad it is. There is no debate to be had. But the emperor thinks it's great and everyone around him has grown so used to him being naked they have learned to just go along with it and tell everyone how great he looks.

If it were not such an anti-fun, rage-quit-inducing, at risk of wasting the money I paid to support what is otherwise an excellent game and could even become the Undisputed greatest most successful ARPG of all time if not for this feature... if it weren't that bad a feature, it would be funny that people even argue in favour of it.

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

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dkp#0523 wrote:

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

350k people disagree thus far, and I'm sorry you're not one of them.

We'll never know the true numbers unless GGG releases them, but it's probably closer to 1 million.

I mean, not wrong - but 350k (or so, i'm not up on the minute to minute) is a number we DO have data for, and that's big enough for me to feel confident about my stand vs one dissenter. :D

Completely agree.


Also worth repeating to the rest of the thread: XP penalty isn't going anywhere.

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Orion_3T#9801 wrote:

Honest question, if it were taken out and the XP curve changed to make the last 10 levels take longer, would you be so upset that you would stop playing?

The funny thing is that even without the exp-loss the time it takes to grind those last 10 levels already block out the plebs these nutcases despise so much.

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

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Hecktoor#2386 wrote:

Dont listen to him, he is trolling here since the first day.
He is a player who played POE 1 ONLY with the most OP builds. Look into his account and look in YT which builds were OP at this time.

It's needs to go. I am over 90 with 2 chars now. And this mechanic fucks it up.
All the defense and resistences dont help you. Just believe me. I tried it at all.
With 10 k armor and Stunbuilds and all resis capped with block and evasion. Nothing helped ! Just the pure hard DMG

Yeah, I used build guides a lot in PoE1. I still had to play the game. I still had to learn all the mechanics. I never one-shot ubers. Hell, there's three ubers I STILL HAVEN'T BEATEN.

And I never played "the most OP builds" it was like basic bladestorm/blade blast, basic lightning strike, basic frost blades trickster...nothing in the billions of damage or anything.

"All the defense and resistences dont help you. Just believe me. I tried it at all.

Just believe you? Well that's not my experience at all. Upgrading defense and resists has lowered my deaths so much that I'm level 95 now. Weird how you don't just get to say shit for everyone as gospel truth. Go fuck yourself.

Man you are just not honest. You played OP builds. I have seen that. To learn the mechanics is something different.

And please don't tell me something about the armor if you havent understood the POE 2 system. To negate 10 k DMG to 5 K DMG you need way more than 20 k Armor (nearly 23 k Armor - just for physical DMG - no explosions or all of the other stuff) . And what i ve calcualted that if you concentrate just in armor and evasion and block and ressistances you are STILL not able to avoid that, because than you havent any dmg to kill those mobs. So please be quiet if you are just trolling and stick to the POE 1 mechanics.

They brought less value to ressistances and armor and evasion but they brought the same mobs like POE 1. Maybe you could realize it now, if you are used to mathematics.....

SO please stop trolling.

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Talamor1#0630 wrote:

You lose experience if you die.
You grind for hours to buy better equipment to not die again and level up. And thanks to your extra level, you get an extra skill point which makes you even stronger, and which will allow you to grind even more to buy even better equipment to level up, etc...

So the way to progress is simply to mindlessly grind so you've out-leveled and out-geared the content. Not to learn to play better with the character you have.

If the game is challenging, go back and play on easy mode for hours until what you died to is now easy mode, too.

The XP penalty is simply the game not respecting your time. The challenge should be what gates the content, not artificial difficulty through punishments.