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fine with xp penalty on death in endgame but it should be capped.
I.e. you can only lose x% of your xp per level, after that xp loss on death goes away until next level up.
Keeps it meaningful and challenging but a bit more reasonable long term.
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Posted bypattw555#0071on Jan 3, 2025, 11:44:01 AM
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Yep. Designing your game based off of "some game 20 years ago had this" is the most ridiculous thing ever. This is also the reason we have the pointless Well mechanic that you have to click for flask charges.
This is my favorite. After reducing movement speed and upscaling map sizes, the wells are the most ridiculous implementation of time stretch mechanics noone ever asked for.
Go GGG! Player metrics over fun!
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Posted byAngryGekko#0233on Jan 3, 2025, 11:45:26 AM
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the xp lose don't bother me, i mean habituated from poe1.
but on thing in poe 2, there is a lot less random death on map. and not just a bit less ....
in poe1 i mean everbody lived a map you get one-shot from nowhere, go again in map, re-one shoot, than the map close to the end, get in again , and re-re one-shot..
-30% xp after lvl95 is hard. that's never could happen in poe 2, and in general mapping, i never see a random one shot from no-where.
for me the xp lose in poe 2 is less punitive than poe 1.
Last edited by laurent67#6296 on Jan 3, 2025, 12:01:55 PM
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Posted bylaurent67#6296on Jan 3, 2025, 12:01:21 PM
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Unfortunately for you, GGG deems the XP penalty to be a fitting mechanic for softcore, since it engages the player to make changes and improvements to their build and skills, or they incur the risk of dying over and over.
It's a bad design decision because in POE2, player power is locked behind gear. Gear has requirements such as Character Level and Attributes. Attributes nodes on the Passive tree are necessary to be able to use certain combinations of gear and skill gems.
This mechanic is why only certain builds are actually viable in the game at present.
Someone attempting a build that requires medium high attribute values in all three of DEX, INT and STR is basically screwed because they hit the wall of XP gain and cannot progress their passive tree to gain the necessary nodes and they cannot use certain gear which has a limit on char level.
So what typically happens is that this player decides "screw this build" and they just go for one of the META from a build guide.
That is what "making changes to their build" actually entails.
Have you ever tried not blindly following a build guide and doing your own ? Works wonders. (If you can read, that is).
Thats a good joke. The game is so complicated and offers so little information inside the game that you have to look at guides. Given how easy it is to get something that isnt working, following a guide for a build is a lot easier than trying to learn how it works.
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Posted byXebov#4972on Jan 3, 2025, 12:19:43 PM
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Another topic about this? Absolutely! I want this game to thrive, but it’s losing players because GGG is stuck in the past.
This is a great opportunity to attract players from competing games. If you insist on keeping XP penalties, make it optional or limit the loss to the XP gained in the current map. Simple and effective!
I quit both POE1 and POE2 because of this. I really want to come back to POE2.
Yes they do, and they will always do, if you dont like the mechanic then why start the game to begin with, this has always been in POE 1 and will be in POE 2
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Another topic about this? Absolutely! I want this game to thrive, but it’s losing players because GGG is stuck in the past.
This is a great opportunity to attract players from competing games. If you insist on keeping XP penalties, make it optional or limit the loss to the XP gained in the current map. Simple and effective!
I quit both POE1 and POE2 because of this. I really want to come back to POE2.
Its odd because this game has broken records and unless 300k of the 500k playing the game dont want it - and i have seen 3posts on forum who dont like it, whichc suggest the vast majority accept it as part of game then this isnt the game for you - and there is no shame in admitting that the game isnt any good for you, or that you arent any good for the game...
Mapping shouldnt kill you, in all my death about 10% are in maps, the rest are in story, and hell i play warrior in maps and have died twice and im doing tier 18 bosses...
Yuou play a glass cannon ,expect to die... play sensible you dont die.. but dont expect to rush a map in 30secs then cry when you lose XP because you werent sensible or careful enough.
The game losing players very fast if you look steamcharts and draw some curve and do some basic proj, you can see the game is going to crash pretty fast if they don't react faster? Btw i like the game, but he's true on this, the game is already big loss of players.
Last edited by Neurodrive#5820 on Jan 3, 2025, 12:24:22 PM
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Posted byNeurodrive#5820on Jan 3, 2025, 12:23:28 PM
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... play sensible you dont die ...
Made my day :D
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Posted byArunderan#4678on Jan 3, 2025, 12:26:48 PM
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So many arguments. Let GGG check the metrics - how many play sessions end after a recent death, I don't know what picture it will paint, but I would bet it will speak volumes.
For me personally there is no better mechanic to make me stop playing the game than xp penalty.
Time is precious, you commit it to a computer game sacrificing some alternative activities IRL or otherwise, you play the game for a few hours, you enjoy your time and everything is fine.
Then you die, you lose all xp you acquired in these hours and a bit more, brutal realization manifests - you chose to grind some xp in poe2 instead of whatever other activity you could do, but now you died, you sacrificed X activity and you also went backwards in game progression, what a fruitful play session that was, I never want to experience that again.
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Posted bycomplexxL9#3968on Jan 3, 2025, 1:01:58 PM
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GGG keep exp loss on death. You will anyway I am sure about that.
Sausage fingers should never be able to facetank in-to lvl 100.
It should feel like an achievement, not as a result of brain rot play. Talking from my perspective also.
• Fo shizzle ma nizzle
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Thats a good joke. The game is so complicated and offers so little information inside the game that you have to look at guides. Given how easy it is to get something that isnt working, following a guide for a build is a lot easier than trying to learn how it works.
It's true. The game is complicated as hell, and my greatest issue with PoE across both its iterations is that GGG has taken zero steps, in-game, to have some kind of tutorial mode/section that actually teaches people how the game's systems work and interact, or how to build your passive tree. I think this is a #1 priority that baffles me as to why GGG won't just make a whole department for, because if they want new players, this is something they should do.
However, if you like the game, the resources ARE there to learn, and build variety is more diverse than you'd think. There are build guides, but there are also GENERAL guides that teach you how to build a character. Most knowledge from PoE1 can be ported and applied, with minor changes. Sure, you're not blasting through maps like Archmage Spark if you do your own thing, but that's a problem of the top builds with guides made by content creators being over-performers.
I'm playing mace chronomancer in a way that differs from what the HotG popular build does (or anyone else I've seen, for that matter), and am still progressing at T15s, because I have historically never found it fun to play the game by following a guide. I'd rather take double the time than another player to progress, even if it means I get to make my own thing and "debug" it until it works. Build variety is greater than what social media, YT and the forums would make you believe (even if certain things DO need buffs, but that's just part of the Early Access balance, and you can just stop playing or roll another character until GGG addresses it. Lord knows my build is likely getting very buffed as they improve/rework Warrior skills, armour and life).
Player time is valuable, but how you assign value to that time varies. If your value comes from just blasting through the game with no thought, then sure, there is no build variety.
Last edited by ClockworkShrew#7536 on Jan 3, 2025, 1:14:10 PM
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Thats a good joke. The game is so complicated and offers so little information inside the game that you have to look at guides. Given how easy it is to get something that isnt working, following a guide for a build is a lot easier than trying to learn how it works.
It's true. The game is complicated as hell, and my greatest issue with PoE across both its iterations is that GGG has taken zero steps, in-game, to have some kind of tutorial mode/section that actually teaches people how the game's systems work and interact, or how to build your passive tree. I think this is a #1 priority that baffles me as to why GGG won't just make a whole department for, because if they want new players, this is something they should do.
However, if you like the game, the resources ARE there to learn, and build variety is more diverse than you'd think. There are build guides, but there are also GENERAL guides that teach you how to build a character. Most knowledge from PoE1 can be ported and applied, with minor changes. Sure, you're not blasting through maps like Archmage Spark if you do your own thing, but that's a problem of the top builds with guides made by content creators being over-performers.
I'm playing mace chronomancer in a way that differs from what the HotG popular build does (or anyone else I've seen, for that matter), and am still progressing at T15s, because I have historically never found it fun to play the game by following a guide. I'd rather take double the time than another player to progress, even if it means I get to make my own thing and "debug" it until it works. Build variety is greater than what social media, YT and the forums would make you believe (even if certain things DO need buffs, but that's just part of the Early Access balance, and you can just stop playing or roll another character until GGG addresses it. Lord knows my build is likely getting very buffed as they improve/rework Warrior skills, armour and life).
Player time is valuable, but how you assign value to that time varies. If your value comes from just blasting through the game with no thought, then sure, there is no build variety.
We are on the same page here. There is way to little information and to much stuff is hidden away for players to get a good understanding on their own. I also like to play my own build and usually borrow some bits and pieces from what other do if i dont see the connection myself. This also means that build variety is theoretically possible, but the step to get it accross the board is to big. Also viability palys a huge role here. If ppl are given a choice between copying a build they have to read in for 30mins and learning the basics in several hours they are likely to just copy it. Especially since the communities approach in some areas is "dont try it yourself, just copy this".
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Posted byXebov#4972on Jan 3, 2025, 1:49:20 PM
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