It's 2025, and XP Penalties on Death Still Exist?

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Kashou#2868 wrote:

Actually it's more like this without xp penalty
-Player enters map with 0 defenses and only offense
-Player dies halfway through
-Player respawns
-Player enters portal
-Player continues killing
-Nothing matters and everything feels vapid
-Player gets bored and quits

This is the problem - so many of you are out of touch with where others are coming from. This is an absolute caricature of what's really happening.

They do not have 0 defense. If they did they would not have got that far, because in order to even beat the campaign you need to not die. They would not have successfully cleared the previous map levels if any, to to get their Atlas points.

You cannot just re-enter the portal you need a new waystone and to start that map again from scratch without the map activities.

Death does matter because you will run out of waystones and never get any good rewards. And in this imaginary scenario they would spend more time running through portals and finding the monsters than they would actually killing monsters.

Also, people need to stop assuming that without the XP loss everyone would magically be level 100. It's still a very long time for most players even if they never die and are quite efficient. And most who are against it would be fine with the XP required being increased and add XP increases for not dying.

Most will still not get there because it just takes too long, and they can complete the available content before getting there. Just like very few players will ever reach Paragon 300 on D4 because you can do everything by around P200.

And even if (hypothetically because in reality nobody would do this) someone could get to 100 by literally dying on every map within a minute and they get there with no Atlas points and the same crappy gear they started with, if that takes them 10,000 hours, how does that in any way decrease the fun for anyone else?

If your character is stronger you will progress orders of magnitude more quickly than those imaginary players dying to the first pack on every map. But even if they existed why does it bother you that they might someday get to level 100 and still have a very weak character and no wealth?

It's at the point people are just imagining some poor helpless person lying on the floor banging their head on the concrete, and they think the way to help that person is to kick them in the face so they get up.

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

People defending XP loss, and terrified it will go away, can simply go and play hardcore.

Problem solved. Let the rest of us have the game we want, and you can get as punished as you want to, because all you talk about in your argument is "skill issue", "good builds", and "being smart".

Yeah, great, go do that in hardcore. If you feel that is too punishing, your are basically admitting that loosing progress CAN upset players, just not at your level.
AKA "my subjective experience of progress and punishment is more correct than your subjective experience".
AKA elitist BS.

Wait, so we're being elitist, but you're literally telling us to fuck off to a game mode we don't like, and change the game mode that already exists for literally JUST YOU?

[Removed by Support]

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

And, as far as I've seen on the forums. Getting to level 100 isn't an achievement, and it's not really even worth it. At least, that's what players consistently tell me on the forums.

So, why do we need a mechanic in game that stops people from getting to level 100, if it's such a meaningless and pointless thing to do?

Me: This thing sucks and isn't worth the trouble.

You: So I can have it?

Me: No, it's not worth the effort.

You: So we remove the effort?

Me: No, just don't do it, you're not missing anything, it's fine.

You: BUT I WANNIT SO F'N BAD!!!!!!!!! >:(

And this was my short play on how humanity's failures are right in front of us.

Sure remove experience loss and just give everyone a level 100 character and headhunter when they log in, because it's the current year and our good days are behind us.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

PoE could simply flip XP loss on death, into Bonus XP the longer you're alive. And the outcome would be almost exactly the same. Slowing players down, because now they want to perform well to keep a buff. Rather than avoid punishment. And it's now significantly less frustrating, since you are not losing hours of progress on a single death. Merely the bonus you built up instead.

THEY DON'T WANT EVERYONE TO HIT 100. We're in a place where you can't lose gear, passive points (deleveling), or any meaningful player power. You can't LOSE power. You can only lose time before you get only ONE specific form of added power, while still being able to increase all other forms (gear adjusting, passive point adjusting, etc)

And before you say, "well they SHOULD want everyone to hit 100," go watch videos, read dev stuff...just get a basic understanding of the game they're making before finding out if it's really for you - instead of trying to force the game you want on the people making it.

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AnimePillowCollector#2255 wrote:

Sure remove experience loss and just give everyone a level 100 character and headhunter when they log in, because it's the current year and our good days are behind us.

Jesus, you're being hysterical over something that would have had no effect on you.

Removing the exp penalty on death is not the equivalent of giving everyone a level 100.

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

PoE could simply flip XP loss on death, into Bonus XP the longer you're alive. And the outcome would be almost exactly the same. Slowing players down, because now they want to perform well to keep a buff. Rather than avoid punishment. And it's now significantly less frustrating, since you are not losing hours of progress on a single death. Merely the bonus you built up instead.

THEY DON'T WANT EVERYONE TO HIT 100.

If you think removal of the XP loss would mean everyone reached 100, you are delusional. Most still will not reach 90. And probably not even 80. Remember, in POE1 something like 90% never even reached Brutus. I'm completely guessing, but I suspect most players who bought POE2 are not even finished Cruel yet.

With XP loss removed, the vast majority still would not reach 100. But at least in the process of never reaching level 100 they would not feel like they are being whipped every time they stumble. And maybe they will get a little further than they would have and have more fun doing it. And be more inclined to make a new character and maybe try again.

Take away the stick and replace it with a carrot. It's that simple.

As much as I hate dying, taking away the exp penalty would lessen my poe experience.

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Jaylock24#5784 wrote:

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

PoE 1 became a successful game despite the exp loss, not because of it.

Source? Metrics? Data? And I swear if you point to the 200 people on the forum...and call that a majority...whew.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

It having this mechanic is just a funny little coincidence.

Source: Trust me bro. Look up correlation and causation - works both ways.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Almost all the Softcore players hate this mechanic, the devs just decided to leave it in the game for no reason.

Source and source? Almost all? No reason? Go on.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

If we were given the option to turn it off in the settings, 99% of people would. This alone is proof that its bad game design lmao

"My made up statistic is proof of bad game design."

My dude, you've said a half dozen things, with wild outlandish claims, zero backing it up. Go touch grass.

And I'll let the consistantly solid playerbase over a decade go ahead and fight my side of the argument.

Ok, so I think his final point you responded to is valid. IF GGG put an option to toggle the exp loss off in the UI, would you continue to play with the penalty on or off?

Go ahead, ill wait for a response. :)

I, like many people, would play with it off, because not doing so would be actively hindering ourselves, but I would also get bored of leagues 10x faster and probably not spend nearly as much money over time. I already usually hit 100 with a character and play a couple extra days and quit. That might take me a month. If it took a week, I'd be done in a week. They don't want that.

So - the "If we were given the option to turn it off in the settings, 99% of people would" is probably still being hyperbolic, but I believe a large number would.

"This alone is proof of bad game design" is the bullshit part. It's friction. Are Souls games or Elden Ring bad game design because I can't set all bosses to die in 1 hit? Because I'm not offered god mode? Because I'm not offered options to not lose souls on death?

ALL games have developer-made friction. It's what makes a game a game. Sometimes it hits, sometimes it doesn't. But if a game is successful for 10 years, then a sequel comes out that doubles it's max numbers on day one and holds over half those people a month later...that's no longer a game problem, that's a player problem.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Meanwhile, no, no opinion is wrong. Ever. That's the point of an opinion ; to be a subjective representation of an idea or/and a feelings. But this isn't an opinion forum, it's a feedback forum. And while feedback uses opinions as a root, it also uses data as references :

Then why do you feel it necessary to step into every thread talking about XP loss on death, and tell people they're wrong, and how they feel?

You obviously think the opinion of not wanting XP loss on death, is invalid. Otherwise you wouldn't be doing this.

See, that's the funny part. GGG has said in interviews and on the forums for a decade exactly the reasons xp loss is in the game (it boils down to friction).

No one ever said you can't hate xp loss. However, when THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THIS GAME DOESN'T WANT THAT, it's not "me vs you" it's "me and the actual people who created the game vs you" and I know that feels bad, but this game is one that I like. You might like D4 or Barbie's Dream House or Animal Crossing. I accept those games weren't made for me, but yes, I'M being unreasonable. XD