It's 2025, and XP Penalties on Death Still Exist?

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morbo#1824 wrote:

If you don't have a penalty, then there is no reason to have a character balanced between offense & defense, which means you can remove more than half the passive tree and affixes on items. PoE would become a one-dimensional silly nonsense, where everyone would only ever grab damage.

They have built the penalties into the map system - if you die too much you won't have enough waystones to sustain and will need to go back to earlier maps to obtain more (or buy them, but eventually money would run out also).

XP loss on top is completely unnecessary because they have designed a fundamentally good endgame system from the ground up. Sure it will need tweaking but to me it is very good as it is.

Remove the XP loss and focus on disincentivising death through other means - XP boosts per consecutive map completion for example. Increase the raw amount of XP to compensate if they feel it will then not take long enough. But don't take away the XP people have earned fair and square by successfully completing previous maps.

If XP must be lost, make it just the XP earned on that map. Don't take away previous maps' experience as well.

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ClockworkShrew#7536 wrote:

EDIT: For context that I personally am not gatekeeping, as much as I like the challenge, IF GGG decided to make the game easier for the sake of drawing in a bigger crowed, I would be okay with that, because (A) that's their call as the game devs and (B) I would still find the game fun.

Finally someone who is being honest and admitting that while they personally believe XP loss is a good system (and I understand why some people genuinely believe this), it would not spoil their enjoyment of game if it were removed.

In a discussion where those defending XP loss are overwhelmingly only advocating for it so that other players suffer, I wish everyone would be that honest and selfless. Respect.

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

A potential middle ground would be to hold experience till the end of the map and grant it when the map is cleared. So you have to clear the map to get the XP reward.

Absolutely this. Like most sensible games that respect their players and reward success. Loot and some XP from killing monsters, relatively big XP chunk for completion.

Even if they took away half the XP from killing monsters and shifted it to a reward for for completion this would be great.

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CaduAndrade#9284 wrote:

If it could be configurable, I don’t understand why me playing solo without an XP penalty would ruin someone else’s experience with the penalty. Why are they against it being configurable?

Personal opinion, they just don't want to admit that the XP penalty is there for other players, not for them.

And if this were added as a private setting with no visibility, the vast majority even of XP loss defenders would absolutely opt out.

If it were made visible, some would still do it.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nope, if you take death penalties out of a game suddenly it becomes more fun.

It becomes more fun ONLY for the people dying all the time + not handling it + wanting the level max. Which is an extreme minority of players.

Firstly, most are not thinking about max level. They are just thinking about the next level. Whether that be 71, 81, or 100 is irrelevant.

That said, it might be a minority of the players remaining - who actually put up with it and stick around. In POE1 I'm sure that's the case, in POE2 the gameplay and accessibility is much better so maybe less so. Players might do what I'm doing and just make alts with no sure plan to engage with endgame.

It's a fairly safe bet that the majority will either avoid the game entirely because of this, or give up as soon as they finally fight their way through the campaign and discover it for themselves.

As I said above, absolutely nobody is pleasantly surprised to discover this is a thing. And if those defending it claim they were, honestly I just don't believe that because it's not rational. I do believe players can come to terms and cope, that's not the same thing.

As an aside I find it weird that quite a few CCs and reviewers are saying the early game like Act 1 should be made easier to make the game more accessible. They then go on to focus their discussion of endgame around running T15+ maps and fighting pinnacle bosses.

I don't think anyone who really truly struggles with Act 1 and thinks it's too difficult for them personally is likely to make it much past level 70, if they even enjoy sticking with it for that long.

A lot of posters on these forums seem similarly out of touch with what normal players experience. It's not about wanting to be level 100, or even 90. It's the system itself and it suddenly kicks in at level 70.

Some are quitting before level 70 because they already found it too frustrating - there are numerous feedback posts relaying that experience. And they didn't even get as far as XP loss and barely scratched the surface of losing waystones and trying to sustain.

This issue goes much further back than level 90. That's just where it tends to become intolerable for even the most serious players. For less serious players this is an absolute non-starter the moment they realise it. And most will give up and not say anything about it here.

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Talamor1#0630 wrote:

Please GGG, do not listen to those who ask you to remove the experience penalty. Don't make this game any worse than it already is.

xp penalty is the reason why this game remains competitive for so long and ensures player retention for several weeks.

You lose experience if you die.
You grind for hours to buy better equipment to not die again and level up. And thanks to your extra level, you get an extra skill point which makes you even stronger, and which will allow you to grind even more to buy even better equipment to level up, etc...

without xp penalty, you no longer need to buy better equipment.
All you have to do is launch a bunch of maps and farm them like a brainless person without even looking at your screen. Even if your build sucks, you'll still end up levelling up to level 100...

Thanks to the penalty, you're rewarded if you have a reliable, solid enough build, and if your playing style allows you to avoid death.

This ^
Upvote from me

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Bacon_Overlord#1834 wrote:

It's a "game" which is supposed to be "fun" and goals should be achievable in a "game".

I know this is from like 15 pages ago, but...

Goals ARE achievable. Just because you don't enjoy achieving them or want to do less work to achieve them doesn't make the goals themselves unachievable.

I swear to god, I have no idea what you all would do if you hit max level in WoW, walked into a mythic raid first thing, got everyone killed, and got cursed out, booted, and blacklisted from every raiding party in the game.

What the ever-loving hell would your poor, fragile minds do?

Games...are supposed to be an enjoyable challenge. That definition differs person to person. This one is not for you.

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Hecktoor#2386 wrote:

What a shameless LIE !
There were thousands and way more threads in forum. Thousands stopped playing because of this shit.

You are just a POE 1, I like the game as it was, Fanboy. Nothing else.

The truth is: With players like you POE 1 wasn't succesfull at all.
They made a very stable basis and nothing else.

They had (especially) the last 2 opr 3 years just a couple of thousand players.
And for sure they will never come on a good amount of cash with players who already bought everything.

They made POE 2 because they could not upgrade POE 1 and furthermore they themselves told that they would love to see many more thousands are enjoying their game.

So your oppinion is worthless because they already had it in POE 1.
So what they need to take care about are the players which are new.

Not all the old fanboys. Go back to POE 1.
There you have all you need and want.
Of course no other players but as you said, more or less, you dont mind.

Literal bot, right? Like - this is some AI-generated hands-with-9-fingers sort of nonsense, right?

Either that or the asylum may need to start restricting web access...

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Have you ever played a game where you had to save, and you forgot to save for like, 3, 4, maybe 5 hours. And then the game crashed, or maybe you ran into a really tough fight that you weren't prepared for, and you died.

Then you went to reload, you realized the save file wasn't updated? And you just lost 5 hours of playtime?


That's how people feel about XP loss on death.

It's not a skill issue, it's just a frustration issue my man.

I want the game to be harder. It doesn't need a mechanic like this in order to do that.

You can't be serious. You forgot to save, for FIVE HOURS, and then when you die it's the game's fault? I was unaware that your being completely braindead and ignoring the thing that would have literally kept you from being mad...is not your fault.