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Better yet, delete exp loss. It serves 0 positive purpose in this game, it only exists to annoy players and waste their time. It punishes you for playing the game, nobody needs an extra punishment mechanic from a game upon death. Dying is already bad enough lol
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Posted byToforto#2372on Dec 31, 2024, 8:23:28 AM
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I need a break from this motherfucking cesspool of imbeciles incapable of reading singular sentences with comprehension.
Don't let the door hit ya, where the good lord split ya...
Last edited by C4Guy#0918 on Dec 31, 2024, 8:25:03 AM
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Posted byC4Guy#0918on Dec 31, 2024, 8:24:02 AM
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TLDR - I think it would preserve the good parts of XP-loss, while mitigating most of the negative aspects, if when dying in a map you lost XP proportional to XP earned so far in that map, but ONLY the XP from that map. This could be *tuned* to any fractional percentage of the XP earned-so-far in the current map, anywhere from 20% on the low end to 2-3x on the high end.
This would be massively better than the 10% of level XP loss we have today, because it would scale properly based on the content we are attempting.
Why?
I'm a huge fan of the XP loss on death mechanic, as it makes taking on harder content more of a strategic choice, and it prevents glass-cannon headbutting. It introduces difficulty into softcore which is fun and challenging, but not nearly as harsh as hardcore.
However, there are several issues with it, including the fact that it's punishment varies greatly depending on what level you are and how much XP you get from a single map.
When you can get 6 bars of XP in a map, losing 2 bars from a death doesn't feel like much, because you'll get that back and more by just completing one map.
However, if you are only getting 1/3 of a bar for a map, and you can lose 2 bars, then you have to do 6 maps successful for every one you die in, and that feels really harsh. This gets especially bad when a player reaches a point where their build is not keeping up, because the natural tendency is to fall back to lower tier maps, where XP gain is even lower, but the 10% XP loss remains the same. WHich feels even worse.
This is also problematic for build experimentation, as one might respond to a progression stall by experimenting with a build, and if that ends up in a death, it can set you backwards... but if your XP loss was proportional to XP from the map you attempt, then you could experiment with a consequence you can handle.
To me, it seems much more natural to balance XP loss around the question:
What multiple of my XP reward should I lose for a death?
If you think you should lose 100% of a map's XP when you die, then easy, take away 100% of the XP you earned so far during the current map when you die.
If you think it should be 1/2 of a map, then remove 50% of the XP you earned in the current map when you die.
If you think it should be 2x, then just remove 2x the XP you earned in the current map when you die (Which in most cases wont even be all the XP you could earn in that map, because something probably clapped you a few seconds in)
This would retain the XP loss mechanic, while removing the feeling that XP loss can actually set you backwards.
If you like this better than the current flat 10% XP loss (even if you don't love XP loss overall), please chime in.
I think you could turn it on/off in the settings. But if it has to be always on, your suggestion is much better as it is today.
I abandoned the game when I got to the endgame. Impossible to waste my time if I die. One less player. Apparently GGG doesn't care.
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Posted byCaduAndrade#9284on Dec 31, 2024, 8:28:53 AM
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There's no argument to be had.
Everybody has its own view of the game and own it should change or stay the same.
One side cannot convince the other side. I don't see why people come argue on the feedback forum, it's just fuel for hatred.
GGG has the final word and is the only consumer of that feedback. GGG will or will not make concessions, arguing on a post like that is not gonna change anything.
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Posted byVinsdvalh#0247on Dec 31, 2024, 8:31:26 AM
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I don't have any other way of framing this, sorry - you are making nonsensical arguments.
The fact that you have to aim for level 100 in order to get it, instead of getting it automatically handed out to you is the whole point you're supposed to refute, instead you're affirming it.
And here's the 40-achievement elitist again. Level 100 is in no way handed to you automatically. The fact that you don't get that is just a sign how far you're gone already.
Do you know how many players in PoE 1 ever completed all maps on the atlas? Less than 4%! Not even 20% of players reached level 60 and just over 7% even reached level 90.
Yes, by removing or toning down the XP penalty, those precentages would most likely rise, but it would still require a good build and a lot of work to reach level 100, but if that means more players are motivated to play longer, that'd be much more of a win for the game than sucking up to the no-lifer elitists and their level 100 circlejerk.
Meanwhile 37% users on steam have Beaten Malenia in Elden Ring. A fight that's mechanically much more difficult than to farm exp mindlessly for weeks.
And the fact that there is no lvl 100 achievement for hardcore should be a tell over the ridiculous grind it is to just hit 100 normally.
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Posted bymrfox123#7595on Dec 31, 2024, 8:36:29 AM
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If they closed off nodes, which is what they originally had planned to do, I'd agree with you. The original plan was that the node would be dead (like a citadel is after failure) and you'd have to path around it.
Instead they just took away the "first time bonus" which is perfectly fine.
Even when I fail nodes I still extract value out of the second run. Distilled Emotions are awesome like that, even if the node is scrubbed their bonuses still apply (such as increased tablet drops).
That's a fair point. I think I'm just at a loss on the total scaling in my atlas for the quantity and % to higher maps. Even with the nodes, it seems like they drop too infrequently for at level or higher (even with 1s and 2s dropping from 14s) and it's the tablet grind that's kind of a bust for me - not even the exp loss. Just hate seeing a good tab, with one time bonuses go to waste.
Boss nodes are the best for sustain purposes, stack waystone drop chance on those and walk out with like 5 new maps. I just setup a ton of them (found a nice cluster, and spent a while hitting every tower in range first).
If you get the deli node (can do it with rank 1) that gives a 20% chance to drop with deli already applied you'll enjoy those rank 1-2 maps. I've got a couple that dropped with 60% increased chance to drop tablets, so if I fail a map it's time to farm some tablets!
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Posted byValsacar#0268on Dec 31, 2024, 9:01:59 AM
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Better yet, delete exp loss. It serves 0 positive purpose in this game, it only exists to annoy players and waste their time. It punishes you for playing the game, nobody needs an extra punishment mechanic from a game upon death. Dying is already bad enough lol
Yeah, we should just delete levels as well because they server 0 positive purpose in the game. It only exists to annoy players and waste their time. It punishes you for playing the game by wasting your time. Just give everyone 99 skill points on creation and let them play the game how they want.
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Posted byValsacar#0268on Dec 31, 2024, 9:08:41 AM
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Better yet, delete exp loss. It serves 0 positive purpose in this game, it only exists to annoy players and waste their time. It punishes you for playing the game, nobody needs an extra punishment mechanic from a game upon death. Dying is already bad enough lol
Yeah, we should just delete levels as well because they server 0 positive purpose in the game. It only exists to annoy players and waste their time. It punishes you for playing the game by wasting your time. Just give everyone 99 skill points on creation and let them play the game how they want.
Well guess what, exp loss will only be active after lvl90. That's something the devs are planning to do. It was said in an interview.
Next up is 1 portal per map, that will be changed too. Because the game will be objectively better and more fun with these changes.
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Posted byToforto#2372on Dec 31, 2024, 9:13:31 AM
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Funny discussion. Because, when I look back on my more than 100 chars in PoE1, none of them is level 100.
For the normal player, it is and was always a not reachable target. And that's for a reason.
They lowered the time needed from league to league sometimes, and my highest char was level 94. But from there its a real chore. You need to run countless of maps that all give you like 0.5% maybe of the level.
Before level 90 its not that much of a deal, at least for PoE 1. But for PoE 2 it feels like it punishes too early too hard. So between level 70-80 it was okay, although when you get like a gab in your maps, and need to run lower maps, the exp penalty starts quite early and it can get rough already around 77+.
I think there is just some balancing needed with waystone drop rates. Or how they roll, as you have not much choice and can't re-roll them.
I am not a fan of removing this death penalty all over, because it's a very good measurement of a build being viable to handle certain situations.
It also separates people that understand the game mechanics and reach level 100 very fast (without dying) and others who asking to remove this feature but most probably never reached nor will reach level 100 anytime soon. This penalty is there for a reason.
You need an achievement when you hit level 100? Level 100 is already the achievement. If you don't get this, level 100 is not your target.
This has kind of a tradition, this game is ladder driven on the start of every league. The first few days what only counts is - who is first on mapping, who is first on killing that or that boss, who reached first level 100.
Removing penalties just allow 1) the not that much talented/skilled people to play with the big boys and 2) Its not a real challenge anymore, as it doesn't matter if your build sucks and you die, maybe you win anyway...
And Happy New Year guys :-)
Last edited by Zalkortis#7661 on Dec 31, 2024, 9:17:11 AM
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Posted byZalkortis#7661on Dec 31, 2024, 9:14:15 AM
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If they closed off nodes, which is what they originally had planned to do, I'd agree with you. The original plan was that the node would be dead (like a citadel is after failure) and you'd have to path around it.
Instead they just took away the "first time bonus" which is perfectly fine.
Even when I fail nodes I still extract value out of the second run. Distilled Emotions are awesome like that, even if the node is scrubbed their bonuses still apply (such as increased tablet drops).
That's a fair point. I think I'm just at a loss on the total scaling in my atlas for the quantity and % to higher maps. Even with the nodes, it seems like they drop too infrequently for at level or higher (even with 1s and 2s dropping from 14s) and it's the tablet grind that's kind of a bust for me - not even the exp loss. Just hate seeing a good tab, with one time bonuses go to waste.
Boss nodes are the best for sustain purposes, stack waystone drop chance on those and walk out with like 5 new maps. I just setup a ton of them (found a nice cluster, and spent a while hitting every tower in range first).
If you get the deli node (can do it with rank 1) that gives a 20% chance to drop with deli already applied you'll enjoy those rank 1-2 maps. I've got a couple that dropped with 60% increased chance to drop tablets, so if I fail a map it's time to farm some tablets!
Great advice! Thank you!
Last edited by Faroc#0285 on Dec 31, 2024, 6:35:50 PM
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Posted byFaroc#0285on Dec 31, 2024, 6:34:33 PM
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