Make XP loss based on CURRENT map XP, not 10% of level XP

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arandan#3174 wrote:

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TKz#3711 wrote:

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arandan#3174 wrote:

Good.
Diablo 4 is that way -->>
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

You think a reply from a random no-lifer on the internet is going to trigger me ? xD
I have played D4, it's bad.
I'd like to play more PoE2, and I think that actively punishing multiple times a player for playing (or worse, experimenting) is not the way.
I have a life, a job, a family. My time is precious, maybe yours is not ?
A game can be hard without being uselessly punishing (I played Souls games too).

Good. Now try to use your brain for a second. You want the game to conform to your expectations, however are those expectations the same for every player? Are there games that are more at your level of engagement/difficulty? Yes? You know what to do then.

Of course YOU know the expectations of every player. Impressive. You should work for GGG.

How it is a difficulty problem ?
Anybody can run "low level" maps or even T15 with minimal juice and then reach level 100. The only problem is that the game becomes Boredom Simulator.
I don't think the difficulty should be lowered.
Giving XP at the end of the map for example (if you succeed) would remove the problem, without giving you any benefits to run maps over your level and bruteforce it.

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

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arandan#3174 wrote:

Good. Now try to use your brain for a second. You want the game to conform to your expectations, however are those expectations the same for every player? Are there games that are more at your level of engagement/difficulty? Yes? You know what to do then.

PoE 1 and diablo 2, this way ------>

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Dude, I can level to 100 in poe1 with my eyes closed and both my hands tied behind my back. At least stay on topic if you want to inject.

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TKz#3711 wrote:

How it is a difficulty problem ?
Anybody can run "low level" maps or even T15 with minimal juice and then reach level 100. The only problem is that the game becomes Boredom Simulator.
I don't think the difficulty should be lowered.
Giving XP at the end of the map for example (if you succeed) would remove the problem, without giving you any benefits to run maps over your level and bruteforce it.

[Removed by Support] You answered your own question. Read the second sentence that you just produced.

What you want is a handout, a gimmie. You want to have the cake and eat it too.

You want no consequences and/or nuance. You want to blast high tier juiced maps without having to worry about losing xp. You want to go into every boss encounter without having the 10% xp loss in the back of your mind if you die.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

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C4Guy#0918 wrote:

It practically requires the same effort without the XP loss, because if your build doesn't work, you can't complete maps since they're one-death only now (which I personally think was a reasonable choice).

You simply can't progress if you fail too many maps, because you don't get waystones or the currency to buy them from other players.

We are discussing two different things.
You're outlining a very narrow case scenario, in which someone is so inept at playing the game that they'd practically need to start over. And that is exactly what they should be doing if they can't clear low tier maps at all.


On the other hand, the effort required to progress your character past 90 would be vastly different if the xp loss penalty was to be removed/modified/whatever. At that point you have the diablo 4 paragon system, in which everybody gets to the cap eventually and it has no meaning whatsoever.

Least the diablo 4 paragon system lets you enjoy any facet of the game while you progress.

The exp-loss actively tells you to fuck off for daring to engage with the games content while levelling.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

[Removed by Support] You answered your own question. Read the second sentence that you just produced.

What you want is a handout, a gimmie. You want to have the cake and eat it too.

You want no consequences and/or nuance. You want to blast high tier juiced maps without having to worry about losing xp. You want to go into every boss encounter without having the 10% xp loss in the back of your mind if you die.

It's a "Feedback" forum.

We are giving feedback. You are not happy about that because you seem to be very fragile, but I really don't give a shit bro.

If at least you would have a strong argumentation, but it's so poor ...

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arandan#3174 wrote:

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TKz#3711 wrote:

How it is a difficulty problem ?
Anybody can run "low level" maps or even T15 with minimal juice and then reach level 100. The only problem is that the game becomes Boredom Simulator.
I don't think the difficulty should be lowered.
Giving XP at the end of the map for example (if you succeed) would remove the problem, without giving you any benefits to run maps over your level and bruteforce it.

[Removed by Support] You answered your own question. Read the second sentence that you just produced.

What you want is a handout, a gimmie. You want to have the cake and eat it too.

You want no consequences and/or nuance. You want to blast high tier juiced maps without having to worry about losing xp. You want to go into every boss encounter without having the 10% xp loss in the back of your mind if you die.

The 6 lives per map in PoE1 was already an adequate consequence, that gave enough leeway to finish a map that's trapped with a few one-shots while still deny you the progress through an over-juiced map.

Bosses and other token requiring features would also be spent on failure.

Both of these things are perfectly fine punishments for the end-game. The first checks your properness, while the other is farmable/tradable to retry.

The exp-loss is a straight up "Fuck you" no questions asked. A tacked on archaic feature that's some devs fetish for a bygone era of gaming. And asking for it's removal has nothing to do with demanding "hand-outs" since this request does i no way mention anything about making the last few levels faster to acquire or given to us for free. That's all in your own egotistical mind.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

We are discussing two different things.

You brought up the "XP loss is there because the game requires effort to progress" argument, therefore the other ways the game makes it clear that some effort is required to progress, are related.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

You're outlining a very narrow case scenario, in which someone is so inept at playing the game that they'd practically need to start over. And that is exactly what they should be doing if they can't clear low tier maps at all.

That's not a narrow case scenario, that's a very common case scenario. I mean, it's not a surprise a 40 achievement player like you has no clue how a normal person plays the game, but come on.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

On the other hand, the effort required to progress your character past 90 would be vastly different if the xp loss penalty was to be removed/modified/whatever. At that point you have the diablo 4 paragon system, in which everybody gets to the cap eventually and it has no meaning whatsoever.

I reapeat myself: So what? Why do you care if more people reach level 100?
Reaching level 100 is nothing else but a grind and it's got no meaning apart from "I have no life" or "I paid people to carry me". If you can reach level 90, you can also reach level 100 if you're aiming for it.
If you need it so badly to be regarded as a no-lifer, go back play PoE 1. Some people are trying to make PoE 2 better for more than just a tiny subset of players here.

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C4Guy#0918 wrote:

I reapeat myself: So what? Why do you care if more people reach level 100?
Reaching level 100 is nothing else but a grind and it's got no meaning apart from "I have no life" or "I paid people to carry me". If you can reach level 90, you can also reach level 100 if you're aiming for it.
If you need it so badly to be regarded as a no-lifer, go back play PoE 1. Some people are trying to make PoE 2 better for more than just a tiny subset of players here.

I don't have any other way of framing this, sorry - you are making nonsensical arguments.
The fact that you have to aim for level 100 in order to get it, instead of getting it automatically handed out to you is the whole point you're supposed to refute, instead you're affirming it.

I don't need any regard from you, or whatever, again - stop projecting. I'm simply arguing that the level cap having some meaning behind it is a good thing, otherwise everybody can just default to max talent points post campaign like in diablo 4. That's bad game design.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

I don't have any other way of framing this, sorry - you are making nonsensical arguments.
The fact that you have to aim for level 100 in order to get it, instead of getting it automatically handed out to you is the whole point you're supposed to refute, instead you're affirming it.

And here's the 40-achievement elitist again. Level 100 is in no way handed to you automatically. The fact that you don't get that is just a sign how far you're gone already.

Do you know how many players in PoE 1 ever completed all maps on the atlas? Less than 4%! Not even 20% of players reached level 60 and just over 7% even reached level 90.

Yes, by removing or toning down the XP penalty, those precentages would most likely rise, but it would still require a good build and a lot of work to reach level 100, but if that means more players are motivated to play longer, that'd be much more of a win for the game than sucking up to the no-lifer elitists and their level 100 circlejerk.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

I don't need any regard from you, or whatever, again - stop projecting. I'm simply arguing that the level cap having some meaning behind it is a good thing, otherwise everybody can just default to max talent points post campaign like in diablo 4. That's bad game design.

Again, reaching the level cap is in no way an easy feat to achieve, but in the end the only meaning behind it is "I have no life" or "I paid others to carry me", because everything above a certain level is just grinding and has nothing to do with being "extra" skilled.
If there'd be bosses/mobs up to level 100 and you could only gain XP if you kill anything at or above your own level, that would be a different thing, but the way it is in PoE 1 and 2, it's just grind.

I give up.
Whoever the person from support who's had to monitor my posts for the past few hours is - I'm sorry.

[Removed buy support]

Give me whatever it is you think I deserve.