Make XP loss based on CURRENT map XP, not 10% of level XP

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KuroSF#6521 wrote:

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So, total XP of the map, by 2x to 3x the total value? The math on that could be astronomically worse than the 10% loss we're currently taking.

What I said was 2-3x of the XP earned so far in the map, not the total possible XP of the map.

So, I go run untainted paradise with my level 73 character and gain 3 levels. Then I die right at the end, so I now lose 6-9 levels? That's a pretty regressive punishment that hurts more at lower levels than it does at higher levels.

No, I think I like the flat 10% loss of the current level a lot more.

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KuroSF#6521 wrote:

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So, total XP of the map, by 2x to 3x the total value? The math on that could be astronomically worse than the 10% loss we're currently taking.

What I said was 2-3x of the XP earned so far in the map, not the total possible XP of the map.

OK, so again let's say the variable is all of what I mentioned and you die at the very end of the map. Isn't that just the same thing?

I see you edited yours, so I'll edit mine as well.

While I don't agree with the variable XP loss, I do disagree to some portion of losing the bonuses on map nodes after one death only because of drop rate scaling and party bonuses being bloated. If we had a slight uptick to general loot, I agree with Val. It's not that big of a deal.

The XP loss on this is rough, yes. It's meant to be punishing at higher levels. It keeps people on their toes and working the grind, finding better gear, more solutions, rework of trees, etc. It's why some people carry different charms in tow with them onto the map and have weapon paths setup for various situations. It's really about the adaptation at this point.

My presumption is that, like the current system, you wouldn't ever lose levels...

Losing 90% of a level vs 10% of a level, if I'm getting 3 levels per map doesn't actually seem like a big difference. We're talking about a 5 minute vs 10 minute penalty.

The issue is that at level 95, dying once could be a 2-4 hour penalty.

I want to reiterate, I personally support XP penalty, and I don't mind the 10% XP penalty. I'm on an 84 monk, and i've died and lost significant time in progress, but it makes me adjust and think differently and get back on the horse.

I just see so many people against it, and this compromise is one I saw suggested that didn't seem horrible, so I'm curious for thoughts about it.

If you want a free level 100 character, go play diablo 4. Don't bring your participation trophy mentality here and demand that everybody conforms.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

If you want a free level 100 character, go play diablo 4. Don't bring your participation trophy mentality here and demand that everybody conforms.

Dude, KuroSF voiced a valid opinion and this comes across as elitist. If you have a valid solution or contribution, or opinion what is better - a 10% exp loss or a variable - that's welcome. Don't just bust down doors and start throwing accusations though. Kuro's got an 84 monk - if you read - and he's getting knocked about a bit. It's frustrating dying on these maps with one shot to go and a loss on the tablet at your map level. You don't get frustrated a bit? That's not participation trophy mentality, that's just being a gamer.

Note: Correction. The post doesn't even read as "frustration", it's just insightful gameplay response to a system that (as an aggregate value per death) seems slightly imbalanced with the total loss (items, xp, and tablet) - and as he's already noted, he's for the exp penalty. Read a bit, mate.

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If you want a free level 100 character, go play diablo 4. Don't bring your participation trophy mentality here and demand that everybody conforms.

What absolutely insightful criticism and critique and nuance. With brilliance like this, how could we possibly disagree?

And again, for the record, I have *zero* issue with the XP penalty myself. I actually *enjoy* it. This is a discussion, for the betterment of the game and the community.

I think POE2 will be better as a great game that makes GGG more money, not less money. POE1 made $83M last year. Diablo4 made $700M+. I think that kind of money to be a resource to invest in a franchise I love would be great, and so it's necessary to think about how POE2 stays true to what it is while also being acceptable to the mainstream.

There is no discussion to be had. It's either a flat percentage of your current xp per death, or everybody and their mom eventually hits the level cap.

Both games do not require anything past level 90 to get a functioning build, anything over that is a cherry on top and should be earned, not handed out.

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Valsacar#0268 wrote:

If they closed off nodes, which is what they originally had planned to do, I'd agree with you. The original plan was that the node would be dead (like a citadel is after failure) and you'd have to path around it.
Instead they just took away the "first time bonus" which is perfectly fine.

Even when I fail nodes I still extract value out of the second run. Distilled Emotions are awesome like that, even if the node is scrubbed their bonuses still apply (such as increased tablet drops).

That's a fair point. I think I'm just at a loss on the total scaling in my atlas for the quantity and % to higher maps. Even with the nodes, it seems like they drop too infrequently for at level or higher (even with 1s and 2s dropping from 14s) and it's the tablet grind that's kind of a bust for me - not even the exp loss. Just hate seeing a good tab, with one time bonuses go to waste.

I suggest a reward-based system for map completion instead of a punishment-based one. I don’t like the idea of being penalized for dying because it feels like a loss of time, which can be frustrating.

Here’s my proposal: players should not earn XP during the map itself but only upon successfully completing it. This approach makes victory feel more rewarding and meaningful.

- Reward for 0 deaths: +200% XP
- Reward for 1 death: you earn the Base XP (no bonus or penalty)
- Penalty for 2–5 deaths: Gradual reduction of XP, ranging from -10% to -80%.

(EDIT): I forgot to mention that this system works as long as players have more than one portal per attempt.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

There is no discussion to be had. It's either a flat percentage of your current xp per death, or everybody and their mom eventually hits the level cap.

So what's the problem? That it's no longer a sign that the player doesn't have a life outside of PoE or that they paid other people to carry them to that level?

Yeah, that would be really bad...

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arandan#3174 wrote:

Both games do not require anything past level 90 to get a functioning build, anything over that is a cherry on top and should be earned, not handed out.

Then why does the XP loss start at level 70 then?