Path of Pain – It May Be a Great Game, But Not for the aRPG Fanbase

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

I’ve been playing aRPGs (or hack-and-slash games, as we 40+ yo players used to call them) since their beginning. Titles like Diablo 1, 2, 3, Sacred, Torchlight 1 & 2, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and PoE1. I’m no tourist in this genre. But PoE2? It’s just a chore.

I hoped PoE2 would be a better version of PoE1. Instead, it’s a completely different game for a completely different audience. That’s fine for diversity in the genre, but it’s not what I or most traditional aRPG fans are looking for. GGG made a big gamble, but I doubt it will pay off. As Kripparian said, “there is no chill in PoE2,” and chill is something the aRPG audience values.

Here are the main issues that make PoE2 frustrating for me:

-Skill cast times: Casting another skill even 0.01 seconds too early cancels the current one. It’s punishing and unfun.
-One-shots: They feel cheap and take away from the enjoyment.
-Unreadable maps: Everything blends together, maps are too large, and even the world map is messy compared to PoE1. Respawning monsters only make it worse.
-Illusion of build freedom: Most builds don’t work. If you’re not playing the meta, you’re going to have a bad time.
-Poor optimization: worse than PoE1, it still suffers from serious engine issues.
-Running a 10-act campaign every season in PoE1 was already repetitive, but it had its moments. I can’t imagine playing PoE2’s campaign over and over—it’s just exhausting.

This game clearly targets a new audience. To confirm my feelings, I reinstalled Last Epoch. It’s a relief: clear maps, smooth gameplay, and real build freedom. You can tweak your builds on the fly without grinding for hours to respec, items drop identified (becasuse why not?), sort button in large inventory. And this is just Last Epoch, which isn’t even my favorite aRPG (Grim Dawn holds that spot).

I’ll check back to see if they change direction, but it will probably take a few failed seasons for them to realize they designed the game for the wrong audience.

And yes, I know, git gud, skill issue, I get it. If I wanted a skill-based game, I’d play an arcade title. I don’t have the time to retry the same boss ten times or grind just to reach a map boss and get one-shot because I didn’t learn the mechanics beforehand or missed a single dodge.

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Boltz_4_Life#1003 wrote:

First of all, the high and mighty attitude/projection is misplaced. I've met/seen/encountered a TON of new PoE players, as well as PoE 1 veterans that absolutely love the direction of the game. Is the current iteration in 'early access' perfect? No. There's a number of things that obviously need to be addressed. To complain, whine and act like the game is going to fail because you said so and because it's not what YOU expected is just dumb and ignorant. I've also played ARPG's for a very long time. I absolutely don't mind them slowing down the gameplay as compared to PoE 1. Something else that PoE 1 has problems with nowadays is that unless you're a veteran of the game, it's completely unapproachable as a new player. There is so much league bloat in the game that new players just don't want to dedicate themselves to a second job to learn it all. It's one thing to play it now, after you already played the leagues and learned them as it was released... but after the fact, it's quite bloated and unapproachable.

GGG made an amazing game with PoE 1. They've also made amazing content with leagues and expansions since the original launch, as the game at launch was NOT anything as enjoyable as it is now. I was there, and a large number of people I game with also were there and did not stick around until they made changes over time.

Stop thinking GGG's decisions about THEIR game revolve around your narrow minded opinions. If you want PoE 1 in a new box (like Call of Duty has done 100 times), then just go play PoE 1? As long as they make adjustments and learn from this beta/early access, the game will be completely fine. I trust that GGG, of all the ARPG makers (especially over ActiBlizzard) have a high level of passion for their game, and just because they don't sell out or pamper to a select few is not a reason to shout from the rooftops that the game is going to fail because it's not how YOU think it should be.

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GregoryAdams#7051 wrote:

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

Yeah.
Horde of new players with no stick in the franchise at all watering down any meaningful discussion with "stop killing OUR game" and "get good".

Very frustrating.

Or maybe they just don't share your opinion and don't want any big changes made to the game? It's absolutely legit to say, that the game is absolutely fair and all bosses doable and that players actually should git gud to better read boss patterns. Furthermore, some people don't mind dying 30 times to a boss. For them, it's a challenge they want to overcome and enjoy it, once they manage.

It's tricky. The problem is that for the past few years, GGG has been selling supporter packs to PoE 1 players, with this whole "It's all thanks to you", "We couldn't have done it without you", and crucially "This game is for you".

So there is this feeling of player ownership, I guess, that GGG has cultivated, entirely on purpose, over the years.
Because the simple fact of the matter is that this kind of marketing is really effective.

The only problem is that as a byproduct, it also creates expectations that, when not met, cause the support and excitement to potentially instantly do a 180 into disappointment and anger. But that's a very well known component of this marketing strategy, and a kind of risk you just accept when you choose to go about it this way.

So I wouldn't defend GGG too much here. I'm sure they were well aware of all of this.

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N3vangel#0037 wrote:

That’s weird because every content creator I’ve watched hasn’t been shy about criticizing the game. But they do it in a way that doesn’t tread all over GGG—and that’s something I can’t say for how some people act on this forum when providing their feedback. Everyone should feel encouraged to share their feedback and experience, but it should remain just that—their feedback and experience.

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

In PoE2, I created a cold sorceress because she was my favorite character in Diablo 2. I even gave her the same name as I did years ago when D2 launched. I refused to look up any builds or play anything other than a cold sorceress in PoE2 because every character build should be viable. But it’s not. It’s pure pain.

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every character build should be viable

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FireStorm1010#8675 wrote:

"I don’t have the time to retry the same boss ten times " I dont even understand this sentiment - boss fights are the most fun, we died yesterday with my friend 8 times to Lachlan before killing him, and it was so fun and satisfying. What do you want to do with your time then? 1 shot clear the screen and getting showerd in loot? Its fine if you want that, but for me its super boring.