Path of Pain – It May Be a Great Game, But Not for the aRPG Fanbase

The game loop in PoE 2 is exactly the same as the one in PoE 1. Some details are different, harder if you will, but the core gameplay is the same. Meaning that, according to you, arpg fans only want to play easy games and nothing else

Only played PoE1 for about 15 minutes, but other than that I'm as big an ARPG fanatic as OP, and I pretty much agree with most of his points.

Diablo 2 was far from a laid back experience. Kripp plays card games now and what he said was so overblown. I just finished my 3rd Ascendancy trial and am running T14s with a player that has not one resistance capped and life below 2,000. But if you listened to Kripp, you would have thought the sky was falling.

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Gimatria#7361 wrote:

Exactly, it's insane to see how many 'veteran' player think they have a monopoly on the truth about games. They don't realize that they're the vocal minority and the vast majority is enjoying the game.

Most people are completely unable to take a good look at themselves objectively, and without bias.

I value everyone's opinions in games. Even old Veterans. They do usually have some valuable insight.

But they also have to realize the reality. They are the last players left in the game when a new one comes out. They aren't representative of the average gamer at all.

And if games are to survive, it's usually not a good idea to listen to only the top 5% of players, or the 5% players left over after 10 years. Games need a healthy average player, playerbase. People that might not log in every day, but still come back to the game every weekend or something, for years.

I think a lot of the veteran players keep asking for systems from PoE 1 that detract from the game for your average player. They don't realize this is why people quit PoE 1. GGG has a chance to capture millions of ARPG lovers and give them a great game. We really don't need another PoE 1, Version 2. For all the veteran players.

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IcyMistV#5121 wrote:

i think this is the issue. it's not a traditional arpg at all. i actually learned that i hate aRPGs. they feel relatively easy and boring and you're just spending hours trying to get to the late game. very unrewarding imo. and the combat is simplistic and boring and the whole reward is finding loot drops.

i want poe2 to shift the ARPG genre in a new direction.

poe2 with it's slower more methodical combat is actually exciting to me because it feels like your decisions matter. and besides... once you get certain skills the game can become much faster. i'm a L52 monk now and i can zip and teleport to enemies.


so it doesn't have to be slow paced either. some movement skills speed things up a lot.

LOOL i knew it, you even created a thread dismissing PoE 1 player calls and calling them unskilled and all the BS you could, and guess what? Youre lvl 52, after 2 weeks of PoE 2, rofl, you didnt even reach endgame while i was blasting endgame by day 3, and still you call people unskilled and dismiss their opinions, i was afraid PoE 2 would bring this "modern" audience and it´s even worse than i tought, people that completely suck at the game and cant see behind shiny graphics gonna be the demise of this game if the devs refuse to listen to the actual players that break their game in half and listen to this dumbfounded opinions.

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Gimatria#7361 wrote:

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

-Skill cast times: Casting another skill even 0.01 seconds too early cancels the current one. It’s punishing and unfun.
-One-shots: They feel cheap and take away from the enjoyment.
-Unreadable maps: Everything blends together, maps are too large, and even the world map is messy compared to PoE1. Respawning monsters only make it worse.
-Illusion of build freedom: Most builds don’t work. If you’re not playing the meta, you’re going to have a bad time.
-Poor optimization: worse than PoE1, it still suffers from serious engine issues.
-Running a 10-act campaign every season in PoE1 was already repetitive, but it had its moments. I can’t imagine playing PoE2’s campaign over and over—it’s just exhausting.

- I've never had this happen once. I've played about 100 hours
- I've not been one-shot in the last 80 hours. In fact, I haven't died
- Yes, valid point. Maps are too large.
- I'm playing a strength stacking mercenary that uses melee. I'm one-shotting basically everything and have 6.5K HP. That's not a meta build.
- Yes, valid point. It doesn't run worse for me, but it certainly isn't great.
- I've already played the campaign 4 times. I love the campaign. Act III should be a lot shorter though

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I’ll check back to see if they change direction, but it will probably take a few failed seasons for them to realize they designed the game for the wrong audience.

The audacity of this comment is telling for who the 'veterans' think they are. It's not your game, that's fine. Don't act like it's a bad game, because it's not.
Honestly, I'm so done with all the veteran players venting on this forum. The vast majority if PoE 1 players actually enjoy the game too. YOU are the vocal minority.

The "vast majority of PoE1 players" who enjoyed the game and expressed their satisfaction likely made those comments before fully diving into the tedious endgame grind that the game requires if you want to progress. Until I reached the endgame and spent a few days in the Atlas, I was thoroughly enjoying the game. However, once I got to the endgame, all the magic was lost for me.

This is especially frustrating because the boss concept in the endgame is the exact opposite of what we experience in the Acts, and it's locked behind an incredibly pointless map grind. Fundamental changes are needed regarding access to Citadels and, more broadly, to endgame bosses (even the regular ones). At the very least, they could implement checkpoints for boss-specific maps, similar to those in the Acts, so that we don’t have to endure a mindless 100-map grind just to access the same boss again if we die.

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_kabak_#1121 wrote:

The "vast majority of PoE1 players" who enjoyed the game and expressed their satisfaction likely made those comments before fully diving into the tedious endgame grind that the game requires if you want to progress. Until I reached the endgame and spent a few days in the Atlas, I was thoroughly enjoying the game. However, once I got to the endgame, all the magic was lost for me.

This is especially frustrating because the boss concept in the endgame is the exact opposite of what we experience in the Acts, and it's locked behind an incredibly pointless map grind. Fundamental changes are needed regarding access to Citadels and, more broadly, to endgame bosses (even the regular ones). At the very least, they could implement checkpoints for boss-specific maps, similar to those in the Acts, so that we don’t have to endure a mindless 100-map grind just to access the same boss again if we die.

I'm someone who's been gaming since I was 4. I played PoE 1 on closed beta, and I absolutely loved the game back then. It really felt like a great example of what Diablo 2 could've been.

After a few years though. The game got infested with min-maxxing brainrot. And everyone was only worried about rushing through the game to kill the stuff at the end of it. And then that's all the game became.

I fully believe PoE 2 is going to be the same if they keep listening to all the veteran players that want the crafting system in the game, that want all the mapping.

I really liked the delve idea. i've seen games that do never-ending maps too. There's lots of ways to keep people interested. But I don't think spamming end-game maps is it. A very small percentage of the playerbase actually enjoys that. And the vast majority of people quit this game when they reach that phase of the game.

I map for a few days in PoE 1. To try out my builds. But I've always quit at around level 85 or so, every single time. The end-game min-max stuff just ruins it for me. Progression becomes super slow. Maps start getting so hard that you need to spend hours working on your gear. It's just not fun. I play to kill stuff. Not stand around in town sifting through my stash tabs and spamming exalts on gear.

First of all, the high and mighty attitude/projection is misplaced. I've met/seen/encountered a TON of new PoE players, as well as PoE 1 veterans that absolutely love the direction of the game. Is the current iteration in 'early access' perfect? No. There's a number of things that obviously need to be addressed. To complain, whine and act like the game is going to fail because you said so and because it's not what YOU expected is just dumb and ignorant. I've also played ARPG's for a very long time. I absolutely don't mind them slowing down the gameplay as compared to PoE 1. Something else that PoE 1 has problems with nowadays is that unless you're a veteran of the game, it's completely unapproachable as a new player. There is so much league bloat in the game that new players just don't want to dedicate themselves to a second job to learn it all. It's one thing to play it now, after you already played the leagues and learned them as it was released... but after the fact, it's quite bloated and unapproachable.

GGG made an amazing game with PoE 1. They've also made amazing content with leagues and expansions since the original launch, as the game at launch was NOT anything as enjoyable as it is now. I was there, and a large number of people I game with also were there and did not stick around until they made changes over time.

Stop thinking GGG's decisions about THEIR game revolve around your narrow minded opinions. If you want PoE 1 in a new box (like Call of Duty has done 100 times), then just go play PoE 1? As long as they make adjustments and learn from this beta/early access, the game will be completely fine. I trust that GGG, of all the ARPG makers (especially over ActiBlizzard) have a high level of passion for their game, and just because they don't sell out or pamper to a select few is not a reason to shout from the rooftops that the game is going to fail because it's not how YOU think it should be.

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Wauxx#0810 wrote:

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

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Wauxx#0810 wrote:

Here in4 the 2023 accs take over the post.



I feel exactly the same way as you, I hoped PoE2 to be a better version but its doesn't feel like PoE at all. Everything is a chore, there are no variety of builds, everyone is playing minions or deadeye, good loot is inexistent (close to D3V) almost impossible to play SSF whitout playing one of THE 2 builds, loading screens for everything and sometimes maps doesn't even load properly at first.

I played Last Epoch just before PoE 2 launch and I'm starting to miss that game... and I didn't even like it that much (for several reasons).

Exactly, I mentioned Last Epoch because of its mediocrity. I played for just a few minutes an hour ago and felt true physical relief after 2 hours in Path of Pain.

In PoE2, I created a cold sorceress because she was my favorite character in Diablo 2. I even gave her the same name as I did years ago when D2 launched. I refused to look up any builds or play anything other than a cold sorceress in PoE2 because every character build should be viable. But it’s not. It’s pure pain.

Have you noticed how every prominent streamer review goes? "PoE2 is great, the best aRPG on the market, here’s my list of 100 complaints"—they all sound exhausted.

Well... that's their job. PoE 2 it's the new shiny thing and the "mindhive" said that this game can't be bad months before early access. All of PoE CCs can't stop playing PoE 2 and make content about the game, atleast until well past January, when the hype will die down a bit.

I think that mid-late January and February are going to be pretty BIG for this game. I still don't know if it will be good or bad, but a lot of CCs are going to change their views really fast after a few months.

I mean there is one example with one CC in particular (I don't remember the name) that said that there were too much negativity around the game and the loot was perfect just before GGG buffed the loot and had to say "you were right". I know he didn't do it with bad faith it's just really hard to be a PoE 2 content creator and criticise the game because, again, the "mindhive" thinks that this game is perfect and if you don't like it is "skill issue".

That’s weird because every content creator I’ve watched hasn’t been shy about criticizing the game. But they do it in a way that doesn’t tread all over GGG—and that’s something I can’t say for how some people act on this forum when providing their feedback. Everyone should feel encouraged to share their feedback and experience, but it should remain just that—their feedback and experience.

I've been playing POE since 2014.

POE2 seems built for the hardest core playerbase that thrives on punishing level of difficulty. I'm not sure that is what they were going for. If it is, congrats, they succeeded.