Path of Pain – It May Be a Great Game, But Not for the aRPG Fanbase

I've been playing RPGs since Diablo 1, I have +9500 hours of POE1 and like many players POE2 was a long wait.
A long wait and a big disappointment.
On the positive side is the graphics, but as I've seen in so many games, this is to the detriment of the loss of gameplay.
However, in POE2 they've managed to remove one of the best things about POE1, the unpredictability, i.e. the freedom to use skills.
In POE2 the entire skill path is controlled. Even the Orb of Alteration has disappeared.
The path of killing one monster at a time has begun, the only thing missing is the need to click on the monster first in order to attack.... but we're on our way.
There is no craft, yet another way to control the player's path.
In this game I had to ask for help to kill some bosses... it's sad that I had to, and even with help Apex of Filth was too difficult.
I really hope that this time the voice of the players will be heard, because with all the people I've spoken to, after hope came disappointment.

As hope is the last to die, I hope that GGG manages to make this game playable.

i love aRPG.. it's for me. Stop talking for everyone. That you are addicted from dopamine doesn't make everyone addicted for over-stimulating content.

it's why i tolerate it. IT'S skillfull and meaningful. Im not addicted like you from dopamine and not-meaningful systems. It's you who don't have respec to your own time playing casual games.

POE 2 will be POE 2. Will be slower, will less power level, will be methodical and they will return from holidays with nuke-nerfs for everything for sure as game is to fast for now in end-game.

Responding to the "early-access" argument: It’s valid in the sense that the game is obviously unfinished, and they want our feedback (and money—which is fair) to finish it. But here’s the big issue. It’s not about missing 50% of the items, 6 classes, or 24 ascendancies. For early access, the amount of content is impressive—if we ignore the fact that they could have built on top of PoE1.

The real problem is the game’s direction and concept. The direction seems to be making players suffer, and the concept revolves around wasting time.

You want constructive feedback? I’ve been to Tristram a million times, slogged from vendor to vendor, and crossed that damn bridge to Adria a thousand times. I hated it then, and I hate it now. In 2024, we should be able to TP to town and have quick-access buttons for all services directly on the screen. Why not? What does running around encampments searching for NPCs bring to the table?

I thought PoE2 would be a revolution, but in many ways, it feels like a huge step back.

As for the "arcade" part of the game, I take back my initial critique. That part is fine—it’s the right direction (except the rolling visuals)
Learning bosses and dying to them would be perfectly fine if it weren’t for all the other slog. I wouldn’t mind spending an hour learning a boss if I hadn’t already wasted two hours just slogging through maps and running around town.

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FuRReTa#7962 wrote:

I've been playing RPGs since Diablo 1, I have +9500 hours of POE1 and like many players POE2 was a long wait.
A long wait and a big disappointment.
On the positive side is the graphics, but as I've seen in so many games, this is to the detriment of the loss of gameplay.
However, in POE2 they've managed to remove one of the best things about POE1, the unpredictability, i.e. the freedom to use skills.
In POE2 the entire skill path is controlled. Even the Orb of Alteration has disappeared.
The path of killing one monster at a time has begun, the only thing missing is the need to click on the monster first in order to attack.... but we're on our way.
There is no craft, yet another way to control the player's path.
In this game I had to ask for help to kill some bosses... it's sad that I had to, and even with help Apex of Filth was too difficult.
I really hope that this time the voice of the players will be heard, because with all the people I've spoken to, after hope came disappointment.

As hope is the last to die, I hope that GGG manages to make this game playable.

Imho, the console port wrecked POE. All of THIS is quite literally GGG dev's trying to bring the PC experience to the living room. Then realizing it was a lot of work and would require a lot of years of working with old POE1 spaghetti code... trashing that idea. Then making it about 2 paths to reach the end game. Then trashing that idea. Then making a new engine and a new game. Then making it "an entirely new game" (it's a twin-stick-shooter-aRPG like "The Ascent").

This is WHY when devs say: "We are going to port the game to consoles" or "We are making a mobile game", we should all say NO and immediately stop playing. Because otherwise, they go down these rabbit holes.

... and it's not like GGG wasn't profitable before.

I guess console players are actively purchasing a lot of supporter packs, because it literally feels like the target demographic changed from PC to console.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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Gimatria#7361 wrote:

Exactly, it's insane to see how many 'veteran' player think they have a monopoly on the truth about games. They don't realize that they're the vocal minority and the vast majority is enjoying the game.

Most people are completely unable to take a good look at themselves objectively, and without bias.

I value everyone's opinions in games. Even old Veterans. They do usually have some valuable insight.

But they also have to realize the reality. They are the last players left in the game when a new one comes out. They aren't representative of the average gamer at all.

And if games are to survive, it's usually not a good idea to listen to only the top 5% of players, or the 5% players left over after 10 years. Games need a healthy average player, playerbase. People that might not log in every day, but still come back to the game every weekend or something, for years.

I think a lot of the veteran players keep asking for systems from PoE 1 that detract from the game for your average player. They don't realize this is why people quit PoE 1. GGG has a chance to capture millions of ARPG lovers and give them a great game. We really don't need another PoE 1, Version 2. For all the veteran players.

This could have been a valid point if poe1 was a dying game, except it's not. It has actually been consistently increasing its playerbase (ie bringing in new players). So your whole point is null.

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Maldosam#3663 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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Gimatria#7361 wrote:

Exactly, it's insane to see how many 'veteran' player think they have a monopoly on the truth about games. They don't realize that they're the vocal minority and the vast majority is enjoying the game.

Most people are completely unable to take a good look at themselves objectively, and without bias.

I value everyone's opinions in games. Even old Veterans. They do usually have some valuable insight.

But they also have to realize the reality. They are the last players left in the game when a new one comes out. They aren't representative of the average gamer at all.

And if games are to survive, it's usually not a good idea to listen to only the top 5% of players, or the 5% players left over after 10 years. Games need a healthy average player, playerbase. People that might not log in every day, but still come back to the game every weekend or something, for years.

I think a lot of the veteran players keep asking for systems from PoE 1 that detract from the game for your average player. They don't realize this is why people quit PoE 1. GGG has a chance to capture millions of ARPG lovers and give them a great game. We really don't need another PoE 1, Version 2. For all the veteran players.

This could have been a valid point if poe1 was a dying game, except it's not. It has actually been consistently increasing its playerbase (ie bringing in new players). So your whole point is null.

Doubt it. A lot of people probably returned to poe1 because of the upcoming hype of poe2. That's why I played settlers. I skip a lot of leagues because they look crap.

100% agree with op.

my feeling now i end my caracter: it's a cool game for playing it once.
but when when it's done, it's done.

in state, there is no way i redo this each 3 month.(for the same reason of the op).

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AnimePillowCollector#2255 wrote:

Doubt it. A lot of people probably returned to poe1 because of the upcoming hype of poe2. That's why I played settlers. I skip a lot of leagues because they look crap.

literally every new league has been growing in player numbers except 1 or 2 rare cases, so your doubt is not doubt, it´s just ignorance, and if PoE 2 didnt release it would have kept growing, and it´s a dated game in terms of graphics, animations etc (eyecandy), all PoE needed was a fresh coat and would last for 10 more years and would kept growing, i would even risk to say that even with just new content as usual, not even getting new eyecandy it would keep growing and going strong for at least another 5 years.

PoE 1 will be remembered like D2 is now, PoE 2 as it is im not so sure.

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AnimePillowCollector#2255 wrote:

PoE 1 will be remembered like D2 is now, PoE 2 as it is im not so sure.

PoE1 wasn't PoE1 when it was in the same age/state that PoE2 is. In fact, PoE2 is more polished (as it should be). You can't judge the entire outlook of a game from a month of early access.

They certainly need to clean some things up moving forward, but the current state is going to be vastly different from the state it is in the next year... hell, even the next month.

I know the "Early Access" argument is way overused at times, but I think sometimes folks are forgetting that this IS still Early Access and pain points are 100% going to exist (and they sure as hell DO exist).

Feedback is really important, but it's important we give GGG a chance here... I think they've earned that opportunity.

If they don't correct some of this stuff the game very well could crash and burn. But my personal opinion is that isn't even close to being the case at the moment and the bare bones are there. But it is overtuned and needs to be revisited.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were already putting together a large patch to help correct many of these things, but just aren't saying anything yet until they are closer to release.

You can say I am a GGG fanboy (I'm not, actually) but so far, specifically in regards to PoE2, they have shown they have listened to a lot of the feedback. Until proven otherwise, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and trust their direction...

But again, I want to reiterate: The game is far from being perfect. Runes, maps, class balance, for some people optimization (not me, I haven't had a single crash or issue, but they exist), passive tree nodes, map size, campaign length, etc are all going to be points of contention that need attention.

I'm taking a wait and see approach with a optimistic outlook. Others don't, and that's okay, but just a reminder that this is not an early access of a game that is complete. This is, essentially, a paid Beta.

my mistake Apex of Filth, correct name VIPER NAPUATZI