Path of Pain – It May Be a Great Game, But Not for the aRPG Fanbase

More like "Path of Git Gud"

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

I’ve been playing aRPGs (or hack-and-slash games, as we 40+ yo players used to call them) since their beginning. Titles like Diablo 1, 2, 3, Sacred, Torchlight 1 & 2, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and PoE1. I’m no tourist in this genre. But PoE2? It’s just a chore.

I hoped PoE2 would be a better version of PoE1. Instead, it’s a completely different game for a completely different audience.

Surprised you wrote this if you truly are an OG. ACT 1 is a love letter to D2. That's just a fact. Specially the cemetery. Idk, maybe you glossed over it.

As for the rest of your feedback... yeah, pretty much.

I wouldn't say (or imply) it isn't an aRPG... though at times it resembles a twin-stick shooter more than anything else. Specially with WASD mode. Dodge roll, running around in circles, backtracking to kill enemies that have too much HP... all of that is twin-stick-shooter realm. LOL! Never mind... yo changed my mind. It's 100% a different type of game. It's designed to be a twin-stick shooter. I'm guessing the saw the numbers rolling in from PC vs. Consoles, the latter being the newcomers... and maybe they realized they would get more out of the newcomers?

+1 bro

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On a side note, IDK if you got to do the beetle farm in POE2 before they nerfed it, but that's the closest I've felt to D2 farming since D2. Just quick resets. Little to no walk. Kill mini boss. Reset. Profit. I quickly realized how much I missed that zen-like experience and how much I dread it (when nothing good drops for AGES!)

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

More like "Path of Git Gud"

Cringe...

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MakaveliPT#7753 wrote:

Good, campaign is easy, now i wanna see you doing that on actual endgame, ho wait, you only have 1 portal, you die and you are out, lose 10% xp, the investment in the map and have to search for a new map boss node, and you farmed for 8 hours straight to attempt a Pinnacle boss? cool, 1 portal, take it or leave it, ho you got one shot? no problem, you only lost 8 hours of progression, xp and got nothing out of it, not even knowledge about the boss because he murdered you instantly, as i said a will say again, people doing the campaign shouldnt even give general feedback, campaign is a walk in the park, and endgame isnt that it´s hard, it´s unfair, it´s a slog, and it´s far too punishing and most of the times because of stuff you cant even control.

Don't waste your time. Guy is hardstuck in campaign Normal difficulty. He doesn't realise that getting a single shot at an endgame boss, that disappears if you die once, is hundreds of hours of grinding for EACH ATTEMPT. And he never will, because he will never even get a glimpse at that content.

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

Sorry, but every supporter pack was a choice from the player. PoE1 was always free and PoE2 will also be free when it's going to be released.

I mean, come on... When you buy a full price triple A game, you either like it or not. If you don't like it, the game will not change in any way at all, even if you give feedback. Maybe only if the majority of the players really say something. But in the end you have no say when it comes to development. GGG could have done the same. They could have finished PoE2 with all its intended content and then fully release it. They decided they want player feedback and therefore wanted dedicated players. Ofc these will be mainly players from PoE1. Maybe GGG also expects some kind of "negative feedback" from these said PoE1 players, since they actually WANT the game to be THAT different. So if players say "I don't like this, it's too hard" (example: trials, bosses, one-portal), GGG may take this as "perfect, that's exactly what we wanted to achieve". If these players leave then, that's probably okay for GGG, because it wouldn't make sense for them to create PoE2 that automatically destroys PoE1, because it's the same but better in every regard. GGG already said, they want to PoE1 to keep running.

You assumption is based on the players that "stay" on PoE 2 have the same habit of playing the same/many ARPGs and coming back for new content on each league/season.

The business model for PoE 2 is the same for PoE 1, a free to play, supporter/MTX backed, ARPG with seasonal content.

If you are wrong, lets says that habit is more tied to these PoE 1 players and these other new players that enjoy all the challenge of PoE 2 do not plan to repeat it again and again each new league, the game will have to change or face dare consequences.

Our chineses overlords(Tencent) will intervene if PoE 1 long term profitability takes a lasting hit and PoE 2 do not step up as a replacement on the same level.
That scenario will only start to happen in 2026/2027, as surely this Early Access thing gave a supposedly much grater cash influx then expected and I would bet the full release will not have lighter marketing then what was already done for EA, given another cash influx on the year of release.

This vision of the game that was sold to us, of a more mechanically challenging, slower, more tactical gameplay is a somewhat new territory on ARPG market.(there is "No rest for the Wicked", I have not touched that to have an opinion)

What maybe wasn't sold on that vision but can be implied by the chosen business model is that PoE 2 wants to have a Soulslike inspired challenge while retaining its replayability.

I believe most PoE 1 veterans that are here trying to give feedback want the game to improve looking at its long term replayability.

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MakaveliPT#7753 wrote:

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

More like "Path of Git Gud"

Cringe...

Not really. There are enough people who get through the campaign and endgame quite comfortably. It's only a small portion of players who come to the forum and actually whine about the difficulty. Instead of being patience and trying to learn boss pattern and bettering your analysis of situations (for example: take out ranged mobs before melee mobs), people want the game to get tuned down. They want their hand to be hold, like in PoE1. Merveil act 1? Just get 2 white cold res rings from Nessa for 2 wisdom scrolls and merveil can be face tanked. You can just stand there and your life reg does the rest... And here? The mad wolf? Yeah fuck it, even with cold res, you certainly have to dodge and do something. That's how a game should be: challenging the player to overcome difficult situations.
The complaining PoE1 players here mostly seem to be like babies, still wanting to be breastfed and whining if no one takes care of their needs, instead of learning to actually eat themeselves.

So yeah, you die 30 times to a boss? GOOD, that means you still don't understand the boss. Can't figure out the patterns? Ask others are watch a video/stream and then get back to it. That's what the term "Git gud" actually means. Skill is the best weapon you can have in this game. You can have the weakest weapon and still win every boss battle. It just takes more time then. And the game already gives you alot of options. You can buy extremely good equipment from other players for just 1 ex per piece, especially weapons. You can form a party with others who can actually kill the boss for you (enough people do it for free). But yeah, that means you didn't overcome the challenge yourself. And this feeling is where the complains are coming from. PoE1 players don't feel like gods here anymore. They die, constantly. You could easily play HC in PoE1 and have a good and easy time, but here - oh boi, you can stomped. I played HC in PoE1 but I accept I'm not good enough to play PoE2 without any death. But that's okay, I just play standard league and don't whine about it. I'm still feeling pretty good with my warrior, beating the shit out of bosses. Others should learn to enjoy PoE2 too. And struggling is part of that fun.

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

Here are the main issues that make PoE2 frustrating for me:

-Skill cast times: Casting another skill even 0.01 seconds too early cancels the current one. It’s punishing and unfun.
-One-shots: They feel cheap and take away from the enjoyment.
-Unreadable maps: Everything blends together, maps are too large, and even the world map is messy compared to PoE1. Respawning monsters only make it worse.
-Illusion of build freedom: Most builds don’t work. If you’re not playing the meta, you’re going to have a bad time.
-Poor optimization: worse than PoE1, it still suffers from serious engine issues.
-Running a 10-act campaign every season in PoE1 was already repetitive, but it had its moments. I can’t imagine playing PoE2’s campaign over and over—it’s just exhausting.

1:Skill cast times and cancels are just normal in arpgs
2:ones shots are common in arpgs, the real issue is with the near unreadable ones, ones with excessive tracking or ones that happen in places like chaos trial where you cannot dodge the boss and the rng mechanics at the same time
3:I agree on this map issue, there is such a thing as TOO MUCH RANDOMNESS when making maps, most things should have a constistant logic to where they spawn, but they do not.
4:The illusion of freedom is caused mostly by lack of nessesary supporting nodes on skill tree and a lack of relevent affixes on gear - for example no non-ailment damage over time nodes or affixes
5:The optimisation is more a symptom of upscaled graphics than of engine math being bad, for skill damage calculations and such it is faster
6:the exhausting nature of campaign is more due to lack of build freedom and bad loot drops in early to mid game. The bosses themselves are rather fun when you have a decent build.

It's honestly sad that "skill issue" is even being brought up. This is an ARPG, like it or not. The game is drastically easier in endgame than it is in act1........

Just two things I will add:

1. Being constantly ambushed/chased down before you can even attack/cast a spell feels absolutely terrible regardless of the outcome of the encounter

2. Excessively long encounters/boss fights (barring act bosses imo) are fun the first time around. THE. FIRST. TIME. AROUND.

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pred88#4642 wrote:

It's honestly sad that "skill issue" is even being brought up. This is an ARPG, like it or not. The game is drastically easier in endgame than it is in act1........

Just two things I will add:

1. Being constantly ambushed/chased down before you can even attack/cast a spell feels absolutely terrible regardless of the outcome of the encounter

2. Excessively long encounters/boss fights (barring act bosses imo) are fun the first time around. THE. FIRST. TIME. AROUND.

Act 1 normal for me was the most enjoyable part of the game, starting at cruel damage wise it felt like poe1.

a other lame topic of soft player time to move on