Jonathan Rogers Interview about POE1 playerbase

I've given up on Jonathan Rogers. After watching all the videos and then getting to play the game. I've realized he's just another Peter Moleneux or GGGs version of Todd Howard. Talks big, makes lots of promises, then we find out half the stuff they've talked about is in thier imagination and not even planned to go in the game.

POE2 just works!

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1453R#7804 wrote:

What's funny to me is that most of the PoE1 diehards aren't even really complaining about the difficulty per se. They're complaining - endlessly, and miles beyond the point of absurdity - about not being able to blast. They want to clear the game at literal lightning speed, moving through maps/instances in thirty seconds or less, one-tap a pack before the pack is even finished rendering, and the fact that they have to walk - with their own feet, no less! - and fight mobs and/or bosses for more than thirteen picoseconds is just excruciatingly, agonizingly unacceptable.

Like, they absolutely cannot deal with the fact that in order to get around an instance they have to walk, with their actual legs, instead of just using a movement skill to achieve escape velocity and dash around faster than the game can render frames. Or the fact that the bosses in the game get to actually use their abilities instead of being phased, stunlocked, and killed before their opening animation is done. Or the fact that packs in the game actually have health bars and aren't just there to explode into showers of thousands and thousands and thousands of drops the moment a PC gets within five screens of them.

To everybody else, it's like...this is just how games are supposed to work? PoE1 is the weird, ultra-niche exception; this is a regular game. And a damn good one at that, even with the early access jank. There's definitely Early Access Jank, for sure, but the bones are phenomenal.

Literally never read any complaint like this, you made it up.

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KingDaMuncha#6025 wrote:

I've given up on Jonathan Rogers. After watching all the videos and then getting to play the game. I've realized he's just another Peter Moleneux or GGGs version of Todd Howard. Talks big, makes lots of promises, then we find out half the stuff they've talked about is in thier imagination and not even planned to go in the game.

I don't think he has the worst in mind for the game, but the way he is designing is adversarial rather than collegiate. I've never seen a good game emerge from a place where the game director feels the need to "beat" the players.

Take the video in the OP as an example. He states in the video that players who played PoE1 rate the game as harder than new players to the game, and that's because they are trying to apply their old knowledge to new systems. But that's just observably wrong. New players to PoE2 aren't just randomly doing better than PoE1 players; they are just rating the game differently.

Put 100 PoE1 players next to 100 "new" PoE2 players and see who gets further in the game and at what speed. PoE1 players will rate the game harder, because they have a yardstick against which to measure, but that doesn't mean they are worse at the game. They will also complete the campaign 50% faster, get much further in maps, and understand core elements of the game much faster too. This is because, by and large, they have laterally applicable knowledge. The knowledge is not adversarial with the new system - most people are completely capable of adapting what they know to similar (but not identical) experiences.

But, Jonathon Rogers (and people like the OP of this thread) see only in terms of adversaries - PoE1 players rate it as harder so PoE1 players are worse and only want PoE1 and blah blah blah. No. Very few people went into PoE2 expecting it not to be harder than PoE1. There is a massive expanse of range between what PoE1 is and what PoE2 is, and the ideal landing site is somewhere in between. And, perhaps more importantly, the further up the difficulty chain they decide to sit, the worse all other balance problems become. When the average difficulty is 95/100, builds sitting in a balance range of 70 get relegated to non-existence. When the average difficulty is 85/100, a build at 70 might sneak through in a well-handled player's control. Core game difficulty is probably the largest indicator in build diversity that exists.

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Pathological#1188 wrote:

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Turddog#8292 wrote:

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We can absolutely zoom, just roll a deadeye and use lightning arrow. Its not rocket surgery.

The problem is literally every other spell and archetype feels awful, or if we do through the force of our own will and experimentation do find something that feels good to play we can expect it to be nuked from orbit. The problem is that the difficulty lays in the fact that basically every unique is offensively and defensively bereft and we're back to there being one singular chase unique and its headhunter again.

We literally have path of exile at home, it isn't in early access, we do not run the hazard of builds getting nuked from orbit with no notice when playing it, zones are a reasonable size, the uniques actually enable builds, stuff doesn't respawn unless you spawn the zone again. I didn't download an entire other game just to play lightning arrow deadeye.

Act 1 sucks pretty hard, act 2 sucks pretty hard, the ascendency stuff sounds awful. Yea, there is some good bones there but the new ninja turtles game has most of the same bones.

You are emotionally venting, and that's ok.

You're talking literal nonsense throughout the thread, and that's ok.

Your original post took a video, made a point that wasn't at all represented in the video, and presented it as "difficulty is here to stay boys!"

Needless to say; very little of what you say is worth reading.

People will do literally anything other than actually make an attempt to have a conversation in good faith. They'll attack you, sure, but attacking people is easy. But yea, all these uniques really do suck.

PoE1 traditionalists are the problem. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but condemning the game and demanding change “or else” is bs and I’m not here for it.

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Turddog#8292 wrote:

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Take the video in the OP as an example. He states in the video that players who played PoE1 rate the game as harder than new players to the game, and that's because they are trying to apply their old knowledge to new systems. But that's just observably wrong. New players to PoE2 aren't just randomly doing better than PoE1 players; they are just rating the game differently.

You literally just don’t get it. People like you can’t leave soon enough because your comprehension of what Jonathan is trying to do isn’t registering.

Also none of your emotional garbage is worth reading either, so take the tissue box and go back to the basement and cry more.

Except that "people like me" will be here in years to come, and people like you simply won't be. What "Jonathon" is trying to do is largely irrelevant if it doesn't have the player base to support it.

You claim other people have "emotional garbage" when the literal premise of the thread was an emotional response to a video claiming it says things that it simply does not say. You understand that the evidence is right there for people to see, right?

None of this is new. We've been through it before. PoE1 wasn't always the zippy game it is today - it developed toward that because what it was wasn't working. Jonathon was there through that; he has the experience and the data, he knows what doesn't work. He's just being bullheaded and hoping that this time will be different.. because.. reasons.

Hopefully it doesn't take another 5 years for PoE2 to reach a fun point that PoE1 eventually got to, and hopefully they manage to reign in the overreach of power that eventually made it to PoE1, but what "Jonathon is trying to do" is utterly irrelevant to the outcome of the game - unless he's willing to burn it to the ground in the attempt. That's the reality of videogames. You could be right; you and the 5 remaining players may still be playing the current iteration of PoE2 in a decade, crying out to the vision of Jonathon. But it's exceptionally unlikely.

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N3vangel#0037 wrote:

PoE1 traditionalists are the problem

"PoE1 traditionalists" is a convenient flashy word that means absolutely nothing, but used consistently as a trump card for all the wrong reasons.
You criticize ppl condomning the game, by condemning them under a big stupid generalisation, over another game.
Funny loop, whining at whiners :D

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Turddog#8292 wrote:

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Except that "people like me" will be here in years to come, and people like you simply won't be. What "Jonathon" is trying to do is largely irrelevant if it doesn't have the player base to support it.

lol ok savior of POE….

It's nothing to do with me. It's nothing to do with you. It's pure math.

Like I said (in an edit, probably after you replied) - none of this is new. You're on a fresh account with a number in the 8000s and a hidden profile so nobody can tell how long you've been around, but you can see how long I've been around. I saw the development of PoE1. Unless you think that PoE2 is drawing in a new and previously nonexistent crowd of paying customers, the development pattern will be largely the same. If people don't spend money, the game doesn't get made.

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Pathological#1188 wrote:

Except that "people like me" will be here in years to come, and people like you simply won't be. What "Jonathon" is trying to do is largely irrelevant if it doesn't have the player base to support it.

You claim other people have "emotional garbage" when the literal premise of the thread was an emotional response to a video claiming it says things that it simply does not say. You understand that the evidence is right there for people to see, right?

None of this is new. We've been through it before. PoE1 wasn't always the zippy game it is today - it developed toward that because what it was wasn't working. Jonathon was there through that; he has the experience and the data, he knows what doesn't work. He's just being bullheaded and hoping that this time will be different.. because.. reasons.

Hopefully it doesn't take another 5 years for PoE2 to reach a fun point that PoE1 eventually got to, and hopefully they manage to reign in the overreach of power that eventually made it to PoE1, but what "Jonathon is trying to do" is utterly irrelevant to the outcome of the game - unless he's willing to burn it to the ground in the attempt. That's the reality of videogames. You could be right; you and the 5 remaining players may still be playing the current iteration of PoE2 in a decade, crying out to the vision of Jonathon. But it's exceptionally unlikely.

My gut feeling is to agree with you, having been in PoE1 from beta to this day.

And yet, you could argue that we are a different time, market changes as well, so we cannot possibly know how it really is (and forums are just noise, good feedback is just flooded and full of anger, to the point you can't take anything good out of it)

Hopefully, they do have the data, and I'm quite confident they progress through that. Most of the time "voiced feedback" was kinda irrelevant in the past, no reason for it to change, teams are mostly the same.

Time will tell !

This Jonathon Interview is confusing, if NEW players are OK with PoE's difficulty, then why bother making a NEW game then?

They didn't need to spin this off into its own game, just make it a expansion and continue just adding to the game.

Again, why did they? Was it because they needed new customers who weren't intimidated by all the content and bloat?