Please, respect our time when doing such drastic balance changes

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Acored#0166 wrote:

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Gogolo30#6034 wrote:

Cast on minion death and cast on freeze I would argue do not fall into the category of useless even now, but I will say that GGG is likely to keep adjusting from where things are now. They likely just want to make sure that any sort of fully automated archetype using meta gems is fully dead. Invoker existing likely makes the gems look extra bad also. Clearly needs more work but I think they probably just don't want to have to deal with anything remotely like an autobomber, and I was surprised at the state that meta-gems launched in. Seemed pretty inevitable something like what we saw would be created rather quickly. Maybe meta gems were hot off the presses and they didn't have time to test them thoroughly for broken interactions. Not sure.

based on this, why even adding those gems into the game?

Useless is also rather i term used compared to cost (60 spirit) compared to other things you could use instead of this now. It's like the old days.. playing Reave... and at some moment, skills get nerfed / forgotten / others introduced :D

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Gogolo30#6034 wrote:

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FruitLord#0833 wrote:

Or maybe don't assume everyone that got bricked is in endgame? Those people probably have hundreds of thousands of gold anyways.

I've seen late 30s early 40s complaining a lot about how they just blew all their resources making their "cast on X" build even better. And many just saw a good skill and used it in some fashion, not copying some youtube video.

Anyways, obviously the folks making this change didn't try playing with the skills they changed or they would know this change literally makes the skills useless. Needing to trigger energy gain 5-30 times more than pre-patch is a crazy nerf.

I can promise you that they don't want automated build archetypes, anything that could remotely be considered an, "auto-bomber" or "looping" based build that exist in PoE1. It's antithetical to the core game design. Of having to actually play the video game.

So yes, the interaction/archetype doesn't work at all. Pretty sure that's intended.

Meta gems are there for minor automation interactions, or supplementary effects that are only needed every few packs. Something along those lines anyway.

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Gogolo30#6034 wrote:

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Acored#0166 wrote:

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Gogolo30#6034 wrote:

Cast on minion death and cast on freeze I would argue do not fall into the category of useless even now, but I will say that GGG is likely to keep adjusting from where things are now. They likely just want to make sure that any sort of fully automated archetype using meta gems is fully dead. Invoker existing likely makes the gems look extra bad also. Clearly needs more work but I think they probably just don't want to have to deal with anything remotely like an autobomber, and I was surprised at the state that meta-gems launched in. Seemed pretty inevitable something like what we saw would be created rather quickly. Maybe meta gems were hot off the presses and they didn't have time to test them thoroughly for broken interactions. Not sure.

based on this, why even adding those gems into the game?

Useless is also rather i term used compared to cost (60 spirit) compared to other things you could use instead of this now. It's like the old days.. playing Reave... and at some moment, skills get nerfed / forgotten / others introduced :D

Having perfect class/skill balance is quite literally an impossible task for a game with this many moving parts. I've learned to not grow so attached to archetypes.

Raider was my favourite ascendancy, not because it was strong, it was pretty bad. I just liked it for whatever reason. I was sad when Warden replaced it, but I wasn't upset, because Warden was pretty neat and things never stay the same forever. Especially in EA we should be ready for the devs to move fast and break things. I think that's not so horrible.

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thaddeus#4851 wrote:

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Gogolo30#6034 wrote:

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FruitLord#0833 wrote:

Or maybe don't assume everyone that got bricked is in endgame? Those people probably have hundreds of thousands of gold anyways.

I've seen late 30s early 40s complaining a lot about how they just blew all their resources making their "cast on X" build even better. And many just saw a good skill and used it in some fashion, not copying some youtube video.

Anyways, obviously the folks making this change didn't try playing with the skills they changed or they would know this change literally makes the skills useless. Needing to trigger energy gain 5-30 times more than pre-patch is a crazy nerf.

I can promise you that they don't want automated build archetypes, anything that could remotely be considered an, "auto-bomber" or "looping" based build that exist in PoE1. It's antithetical to the core game design. Of having to actually play the video game.

So yes, the interaction/archetype doesn't work at all. Pretty sure that's intended.

Meta gems are there for minor automation interactions, or supplementary effects that are only needed every few packs. Something along those lines anyway.

Honestly, the problem is that there aren't many supplementary things - at least from what I've experienced. Many buffs I've seen barely last double-digit seconds and pack density and distribution isn't that high in the lower-tier maps. Most of the time you'll get a proc at the end of a pack and it'll be done by the time you reach the next one so it feels like a waste.

Even before this nerf, part of the reason everyone went comet is because many alternative spells barely do anything.

I'm playing a shock Invoker monk, I have ascendancy points for meta gem triggering, so I figured I'd try out various lightning-based cast on shock builds. I've tried every lightning spell I can think of and most of them don't do much. No decent damage, no utility, nothing. I've been running a spark build because that did give me some utility by increasing my shock count. However, post-nerf, that's gone too.

My build is fine even with these changes since I was using my cast on shocks as supplementary, but they're almost entirely superfluous now. There just aren't enough options to actually give build variety and these gems are meant to be a key part of some monk playstyle because they're part of the ascendancy.

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Acored#0166 wrote:

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Gogolo30#6034 wrote:

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Acored#0166 wrote:

based on this, why even adding those gems into the game?

Useless is also rather i term used compared to cost (60 spirit) compared to other things you could use instead of this now. It's like the old days.. playing Reave... and at some moment, skills get nerfed / forgotten / others introduced :D

Having perfect class/skill balance is quite literally an impossible task for a game with this many moving parts. I've learned to not grow so attached to archetypes.

Raider was my favourite ascendancy, not because it was strong, it was pretty bad. I just liked it for whatever reason. I was sad when Warden replaced it, but I wasn't upset, because Warden was pretty neat and things never stay the same forever. Especially in EA we should be ready for the devs to move fast and break things. I think that's not so horrible.

Just watching Jungroan on stream, making the nerf work spending 120 Exalts and getting hit by another nerf where CoC went from 10 Energy to 1 Energy.

hilarious lol

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Gogolo30#6034 wrote:

Right, this take I totally understand. I think there are a lot of very underserved archetypes and build paths but personally at least, I chalk this up to there being very scant few choices in terms of skills, build enabling items, and highly unique or even paradigm shifting nodes/keystones on the passive tree. The passive tree being less impactful than the first two but our palette is just severely diminished compared to PoE1 and it will simply take time for those skills and sources of build ideas to be developed. So it's hard to really give feedback other than, "boy can't wait for more options" at least for me. So I hear you but I think it would be best to reserve judgement until we can place these things in context against the rest of the options we should have arriving in the coming months.