is the xp lost on death a good design ?

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

It quite literally does none of those things. No I don't feel any weight to progression lol, leveling is just a chore to be done and then you can corpse-run and not care about exp after getting all your jewel sockets. No it doesn't make success feel earned, its just a boring grind where you can take 2 steps forward then 10 steps backward because you got oneshot by something.

Leveling is still a boring treadmill even now with exp loss, in fact exp loss makes that grind even worse. It adds 0 stakes, only annoyance when you die. "Oh I want to do this boss but I have to wait until I level up" is one of the most annoying things in this game lol

Not everyone wants pressure and "stakes" in this game. This is why people play softcore trade, there's a reason the majority of the playerbase prefers it. Most people don't like the idea of hardcore or even ssf cus why would I self-farm anything when I can just pay 5 divs for it on trade?

There's 0 pride or accomplishment in lvl100 its just a monotonous chore lol

The only way to satisfy every player is just adding a toggle in the settings for exp loss and calling it a day. Simple solution. And like 90% of softcore trade players would disable it right away, because it's just an annoying mechanic that wastes hours of your time for literally no reason.

Ah, yes, the classic “XP loss does nothing and leveling is a chore” argument—except it doesn’t make any sense when you stop to think about it. You don’t even need to hit level 100 to do endgame content! Literally everything in this game, including mapping, bossing, and crafting, can be done comfortably in the low 90s. So why does it matter if you’re level 100 or not? Spoiler alert: it doesn’t. Levels past 90 give diminishing returns, especially because gear is what truly matters in PoE. The entire game is built around your build and items, not squeezing out an extra passive point or two.

The idea that XP loss ruins progression or makes the game unfun also falls apart under scrutiny. If leveling is such a boring treadmill, why does it bother you so much to lose XP? By your logic, it shouldn’t matter at all. And let’s not pretend XP penalties stop you from doing content. You can still “corpse-run” any boss or map as much as you like. The mechanic is there to reward calculated play and offer some tension. If you want to brute-force your way through encounters with 6 portals, no one’s stopping you, but don’t pretend that removing XP penalties will suddenly make the game more interesting.

And then there’s the argument about toggling XP loss off, which, sure, would appeal to people who want to bulldoze through the game with zero consequences. But ask yourself: what’s the point of leveling up if it doesn’t mean anything? Without stakes, there’s no value in progression. Level 100 would just become a checkbox, not an achievement. “Simple solution” or not, removing XP penalties would only make the grind even more meaningless than you claim it already is.

So, no, XP loss isn’t ruining your experience. If anything, it’s highlighting that the real issue here is people wanting all the rewards with none of the risk. You’re not being “punished” by XP penalties—you’re just being asked to care about how you approach the game.

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Helldrazi#4560 wrote:

And then there’s the argument about toggling XP loss off, which, sure, would appeal to people who want to bulldoze through the game with zero consequences. But ask yourself: what’s the point of leveling up if it doesn’t mean anything? Without stakes, there’s no value in progression. Level 100 would just become a checkbox, not an achievement. “Simple solution” or not, removing XP penalties would only make the grind even more meaningless than you claim it already is.

Level 100 is already a checkbox, do you have any idea how annoying it is when you're just copying a build and see a lvl100 pob? You're literally forced to either buy 5-way legion carries all day or remove points and play a scuffed version because the build needs all those skill points.

Yes I am a softcore player, and I don't like the """consequence""" of losing 10% exp to a random oneshot. This gamemode is already punishing enough with losing portals, an entire map to a disconnect randomly, or your entire boss invitation or maven invitation for dying. That is more than enough. No need to punish players because of some random oneshot that happened when random archnemesis mods mixed badly with map mods. Many other people don't like it, which is why these threads exist. I don't care about stakes. I don't care about achievements. I don't care. I just want to play and have fun. That's all.

I just want to passively get to 100 while doing my favorite map. I don't want to have to do cringe breach+beyond+evolving scarab maps just to get some exp all while avoiding any other content because if you die then all that farming is for nothing.

This outdated exp loss doesn't belong in this game nor in any modern game. It's pointless. It adds nothing, it only annoys players and forces them to avoid any dangerous content until they level up. Or just go in and lose half their level if they don't care.

Do you know how many times the thought of changing my gameplay has crossed my mind after dying? Exactly 0. No this game does not motivate you to change your approach, you just get oneshot in half a millisecond with no deathlog or anything and just go back in your map after vendoring your loot. And hope you don't die again. I've had days where I've gone from 0 to 70% exp then back to 0 because I fought Sirus or Uber Elder or something and died a lot just to get voidstones/loot. That's simply bad game design. Nothing else.


If getting to lvl100 doesn't matter so much, then they should just delete the exp penalty. And I will keep complaining about this clearly out-of-place mechanic until it is changed and balanced properly or just removed from the game. Adding a simple toggle for it in the settings would be the quickest and easiest fix.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Level 100 is already a checkbox, do you have any idea how annoying it is when you're just copying a build and see a lvl100 pob? You're literally forced to either buy 5-way legion carries all day or remove points and play a scuffed version because the build needs all those skill points.

Except it's not a check box and you are not forced to be 100 in order to run the build. There's not a single build out there that gets viable with level 100 and feels terrible without it. Most of all builds are done past level 90 and the remaining 10 level ain't much other than extra min-maxing stats but nothing that's going to break your build if you don't have it lol.

Simple case of skill issue here.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

Simple case of skill issue here.

Not every badly designed part of a game can be explained away by "skill issue". Bad game design is what it is: bad game design. And the exp loss on death just sucks.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Spoiler

Level 100 is already a checkbox, do you have any idea how annoying it is when you're just copying a build and see a lvl100 pob? You're literally forced to either buy 5-way legion carries all day or remove points and play a scuffed version because the build needs all those skill points.

Yes I am a softcore player, and I don't like the """consequence""" of losing 10% exp to a random oneshot. This gamemode is already punishing enough with losing portals, an entire map to a disconnect randomly, or your entire boss invitation or maven invitation for dying. That is more than enough. No need to punish players because of some random oneshot that happened when random archnemesis mods mixed badly with map mods. Many other people don't like it, which is why these threads exist. I don't care about stakes. I don't care about achievements. I don't care. I just want to play and have fun. That's all.

I just want to passively get to 100 while doing my favorite map. I don't want to have to do cringe breach+beyond+evolving scarab maps just to get some exp all while avoiding any other content because if you die then all that farming is for nothing.

This outdated exp loss doesn't belong in this game nor in any modern game. It's pointless. It adds nothing, it only annoys players and forces them to avoid any dangerous content until they level up. Or just go in and lose half their level if they don't care.

Do you know how many times the thought of changing my gameplay has crossed my mind after dying? Exactly 0. No this game does not motivate you to change your approach, you just get oneshot in half a millisecond with no deathlog or anything and just go back in your map after vendoring your loot. And hope you don't die again. I've had days where I've gone from 0 to 70% exp then back to 0 because I fought Sirus or Uber Elder or something and died a lot just to get voidstones/loot. That's simply bad game design. Nothing else.


If getting to lvl100 doesn't matter so much, then they should just delete the exp penalty. And I will keep complaining about this clearly out-of-place mechanic until it is changed and balanced properly or just removed from the game. Adding a simple toggle for it in the settings would be the quickest and easiest fix.

I absolutely see your plight now. Poor you, stuck in the heinous cycle of running your favorite map all day, wanting to “passively” glide to level 100 without engaging in the horrors of challenge or danger. And yes, clearly, the game should cater to your specific brand of laziness because why would leveling up actually require effort? Grinding easier content for slower but safer XP? Unthinkable! The game should just hand you a level 100 badge for logging in consistently.

Also, it’s such a tragedy that you’re “forced” to either buy carries or adapt your build when looking at a level 100 PoB. The horror! Imagine the gall of a game asking you to think critically about skill allocation or—gasp—using a slightly different tree at level 95. Who even has the emotional capacity to make a functional build without maxing out skill points? Truly a cruel and unusual punishment.

And of course, the “random oneshot” epidemic is entirely the game’s fault, right? Because there’s no way your resistances, defensive layers, or mapping choices could possibly be responsible for that outcome. No, let’s blame those pesky mods mixing together in sinister ways, conspiring against you and robbing you of your precious passive grind. But hey, at least your strategy of corpse-running bosses is inspiring. Why learn mechanics or improve your build when you can just zerg with your portals? Genius.

Oh, and let’s not forget the real kicker: you don’t care about stakes, achievements, or consequences. You just “want to play and have fun.” Wow. Groundbreaking stuff. If only the game’s developers had known that “fun” means making death utterly meaningless and leveling as mindless as possible. You’re right—Path of Exile should just delete anything resembling stakes because some people might actually have to think about their actions. Scandalous.

And by the way, this is POE2 we’re talking about—a game with vastly improved respec systems. Skill points aren’t the fragile, end-of-the-world resource you’re making them out to be. You can experiment, tweak your tree, and still have a blast without touching level 100. But no, let’s complain about an optional grind that literally does not matter for endgame progression.

So, go ahead and keep calling the XP penalty “outdated” while ignoring the fact that it exists to provide weight to your decisions. You can still hit level 100 by running easier content and making steady progress. Fixed. Done. No need to delete core mechanics just because you want a participation trophy. But hey, keep championing that toggle idea—I'm sure the devs can’t wait to hear it for the 1,000th time.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

Simple case of skill issue here.

Not every badly designed part of a game can be explained away by "skill issue". Bad game design is what it is: bad game design. And the exp loss on death just sucks.

Dude, you don't even know what good or bad game design is. You just want to play a game that shits out loot, gets you to max level and has as little friction as possible because you can't be bothered to learn, improve, adapt, make your own decisions - much less builds or accept when you're just plain wrong. All you contribute to these discussions are empty strawmen arguments that serve the singular purpose of making the game as easy as you need it to be. So yes, respectfully, skill issue. All the skill issues.

Maybe you can go and make your own game? Show GGG how it's done, mh?

Skill issue means: those who are not capable to progress without dying
are not really skilled enough to play the game at that level.

So the real issue is personal entitlement. IMHO everybody should be
less entitled and more humble. Respect the developers opinion.

Why having a feedback + suggestions forum if at the end it's "respect the developers opinion" or "skill issues" or "you don"t know anything".

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

Why having a feedback + suggestions forum if at the end it's "respect the developers opinion" or "skill issues" or "you don"t know anything".

I gave great examples of why it's need. I know it's hard to understand.

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

Why having a feedback + suggestions forum if at the end it's "respect the developers opinion" or "skill issues" or "you don"t know anything".

There's a difference between actual feedback and "lol it's bad", "lol it sucks" and "my opinion is a fact".