is the xp lost on death a good design ?

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

I accept your apologies.

Thank you very much.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

Yes it's definitely a good design even these days. While it's already fairly easy to not die or level to 100 it still adds a bit touch to the game as it prevents brain dead gaming by face rolling your way to max level by corpse rushing content with terrible designed glass cannon builds.

Without a penalty defense would have little to no value as you can just corpse rush everything.

I would even say that the one portal way of PoE2 would fit well into PoE1, rewarding players with a good character more than the low to non optimized full dps zhp builds, or make it more than 10% to counter the insane exp gain these days lol.

D3/D4 and various other games are a good example that it's bad to not have a penalty.

did they not limit the amount of corpse rushing you can do in this game?

Or if they didn't , couldnt they just respawn enemies if you die?

This is one of the most talked subjects of this community that I've seen over the years. This means the company knows there is a good percentage of their players that want the OPTION of removing the exp penalty. There are many ways it could be replaced.

The fact that these keep appearing both show it's a valid request, by popularity, and useless to discuss at the same time. It's subjective, many people want it, end of the story.

The response is usually another good chunk of the community either politely but uselessly discussing a subjective matter with the same arguments over and over again; or another chunk showing how toxic and immature they can be; and the company acting as if the players complaining didn't exist.

So, at some point, we should arrive to the conclusion that the company isn't so different from both Blizzard's corporate culture, and parts of this community, saying the exact same thing in different ways over and over and over again:

"We know better, you shouldn't want that, this is what you should want instead, because I know better and I want that."

Botton line is that there are other awesome game companies with more consumer friendly philosophies that give control to players instead of I-know-better God devs. The same way we learned to abandon the anti-consumer practices of Blizzard, we should learn to kick this one as well. Poe 2 will have the same philosophy, it's made by the same people.

XP loss on death not a big deal, esp not with that omen which prevents 75 percent.

There is something a bit worse, which is high level requirements on gear. 3.25 added many new bases but they have very high required levels, up to 84. This is distruptive on playing 2nd and subsequent characters, where you usually have the "build" pre-crafted or pre-bought and just level up a character through campaign.

Level 84 is much worse than campaign though. That's like 15 levels of grinding maps with your campaign build until you can equip your actual build. So what do you do, you buy a 5-way carry. This is pretty much inevitable.

I would add a currency item to the game that allows to reduce required level by 20 (usable once per item). So your first character does need to reach those high levels, but not subsequent ones. This currency only drops in high tier maps.

Level 84 is very high? The longer POE exist, the more comments deteriorate. I just came back a few weeks ago to get 36 challenges in Settlers when GGG announced that the league was extended. The changes in atlas is really good that it took me less than 2 weeks to get 36 challenges including reaching level 100. I was doing t16 with full effect explicit tree from the atlas with a tabula rasa. Buying 5 way is your choice but why would you buy 5 way when you can level and earn currency at the same time?

This isn't about validity or requested by x number of people, this is about x people learning about how to compensate when the you need to. If you are dying so much that you can't reach level 100, why would you advocate to change when other people can do it? I mean, wouldn't it be better if you learn, get better and reach 100? The silver lining about this specific topic is that, I like the vision of GGG and their vision suits what I want in a game.

I know you are not me and I am not you but these kinds of topic are regression and when did you see regression being a good sign? Stop with the reason I am casual since in my opinion, there are people who are good and casual at the same time.

This will probably help those people to understand
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AMlASak2-aY

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iMirageX#4580 wrote:

This isn't about validity or requested by x number of people, this is about x people learning about how to compensate when the you need to. If you are dying so much that you can't reach level 100, why would you advocate to change when other people can do it? I mean, wouldn't it be better if you learn, get better and reach 100? The silver lining about this specific topic is that, I like the vision of GGG and their vision suits what I want in a game.

Yes lvl84 is way too high and annoying to grind when you're playing a build that literally cannot go online until you equip all the gear, so you're forced to buy 5-way legion carries. There is no other way.


Why shouldn't the exp loss be removed if reaching lvl100 is so easy for so many players then? It doesn't mean much anyway right?

I don't want to "learn" or "get better". The only gameplay in this game is hold right click, spam flamedash in random directions while hoping not to die and just win. That's it. The people asking for exp loss to be deleted are just tired of losing the hours they invested into getting that exp, when they clearly did not sign up for these kinds of mechanics. This is Softcore, not Hardcore not Mediumcore.

Toggle is the option that makes everyone happy, if you enjoy losing hours of your time for no reason then please do leave exp loss on. But people who do not enjoy it can have the option to just turn it off. And the best part is it literally doesn't affect you or any other player. It's just personal choice and qol. This is all we're asking for. Exp loss is simply outdated and dumb, and annoying.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I don't want to "learn" or "get better". The only gameplay in this game is hold right click, spam flamedash in random directions while hoping not to die and just win. That's it. The people asking for exp loss to be deleted are just tired of losing the hours they invested into getting that exp, when they clearly did not sign up for these kinds of mechanics. This is Softcore, not Hardcore not Mediumcore.

With this kind of reply, I'm really glad GGG is who they are. I guess you didn't watch the vid or just too close minded to comprehend their reason.

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iMirageX#4580 wrote:

Level 84 is very high? The longer POE exist, the more comments deteriorate. I just came back a few weeks ago to get 36 challenges in Settlers when GGG announced that the league was extended. The changes in atlas is really good that it took me less than 2 weeks to get 36 challenges including reaching level 100. I was doing t16 with full effect explicit tree from the atlas with a tabula rasa. Buying 5 way is your choice but why would you buy 5 way when you can level and earn currency at the same time?

This isn't about validity or requested by x number of people, this is about x people learning about how to compensate when the you need to. If you are dying so much that you can't reach level 100, why would you advocate to change when other people can do it? I mean, wouldn't it be better if you learn, get better and reach 100? The silver lining about this specific topic is that, I like the vision of GGG and their vision suits what I want in a game.

I know you are not me and I am not you but these kinds of topic are regression and when did you see regression being a good sign? Stop with the reason I am casual since in my opinion, there are people who are good and casual at the same time.

Honestly I understand. If I was doing lvl100 + 36 chall in two weeks I would probably have your opinion. But i'm not that good and probably never will, i'm way past my prime.

It feels to me that the game has a lot of endgame challenges to offer and xp penalty is kind of getting in the way of all of them. I want to learn, I want to get better on bosses, mapping, try things, but everytime I do I get this extra little punishment unrelated to the thing i'm trying to achieve.

It is very inspiring to say "why would you advocate to change when other people can do it?" but it's not a general truth because you could apply it to any situation and find one where you would be on other end of the matter.

And advocating for change is very healthy. You consider it regression, but most of the time questioning oneself (game mechanics in this case) is the root of any improvement. I'm pretty sure any QOL change made by GGG started with them questioning their own design.

edit : interesting video btw
not really a clear point in favor of xp loss but I understand better what could be GGG's point of view on it.

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

And advocating for change is very healthy. You consider it regression, but most of the time questioning oneself (game mechanics in this case) is the root of any improvement. I'm pretty sure any QOL change made by GGG started with them questioning their own design.

I agree and nowhere in my reply did I said that advocating is bad, I was referring to the topic that is being advocated and nowhere in my other reply that I implied that I am against what you are advocating. I just gave my thoughts about what is on my mind and that may seem or imply that I am against it.

One question that I would like to ask is, why would you try a boss when you have experience to lose? If this was a map boss then just ignore my question.

When I first started POE in 2013 I hated the exp penalty. Was just like OP posting here about why it's so bad. After a few years I saw what made it useful. It made lvl100 an achievement and stopped people from just going glass cannon and killing bosses before they do anything. It takes a bit more effort and planning. You can still do that but not with every build.


The usual response to the above would be "but getting lvl100 is so easy, you can just pay for a carry so it's not an achievement". That's true, but if you want to grind it out yourself which I expect most players want to do, you need to plan properly.


Eventually you get to a point where deaths feel bad even in SC. So I played a version inbetween SC and HC where I would delete a character if it died once but I'd keep all the gear. That way I wasn't starting from complete scratch every time but also getting to lvl100 deathless solo felt like an achievement, even in SC.