Guild tabs not merging to POE2 - Ziz interview with Jonathan

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Helldrazi#4560 wrote:

On the surface, this sounds simple, but here’s where it falls apart:
Who gets the points? If multiple players contributed, how do you divide them? What if the guild leader didn’t buy everything, or they’ve stopped playing?
What if the guild dissolved? Are former members entitled to reimbursement? What if players have joined multiple guilds?
Matching guilds: What if someone in PoE2 creates a guild with the same name as one from PoE1? Who gets priority for the name or associated points?

I was hoping for some sound counterpoints, after reading your claims, and perhaps witnessing the teetering structures of my argument(s). Unfortunately, you haven't scratched the surface. Rather, your responses read as a collection of excuses for breaking one's word, which in any dealing is generally frowned upon...often engaged in by con-artists and those bound to witness the crumbling facade of their own reputation and respectability.

The above (quoted) is interesting, so to elaborate, I'll respond.

Who gets the points?
The current guild leader gets the points.

If multiple players contributed, how do you divide them?
You don't divide them. Those points were donated to the guild.

What if the guild dissolved?
I'm not sure what you mean by 'dissolved' here, but the points go to the current guild leader.

Are former members entitled to reimbursement?
No, the guild points were donated to the guild.

What if players have joined multiple guilds?
They can once again join multiple guilds, if they so choose to do so in PoE 2, in succession, and any points donated to those guilds are no longer their property. Their membership in any guild after a donation will likely be protected for a period of time.

Matching guilds: What if someone in PoE2 creates a guild with the same name as one from PoE1? Who gets priority for the name or associated points?

Since this would involve credit based on the guild in PoE 1, the current guild leader in PoE 1 receives the points. In the circumstances you described, that person would then be forced to choose an alternate guild name, unless GGG reserves PoE 1 guild names in PoE 2 for the current PoE 1 leader.

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Helldrazi#4560 wrote:

Yeah, that limb just snapped.

Perhaps in your imagination...Unless you are deeply familiar with GGG's (relevant) backend systems, and describe in reasonable detail the wall of challenges implied by my suggestion, I'll wait for comment by someone who is actually familiar with GGG's (relevant) backend systems.

I have made no such claim of familiarity. My voiced conjecture is just that...thus the "limb". I'm not sure how thin it is, and welcome correction by an eminent authority on the subject.

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MoonPeace#1394 wrote:

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Helldrazi#4560 wrote:

On the surface, this sounds simple, but here’s where it falls apart:
Who gets the points? If multiple players contributed, how do you divide them? What if the guild leader didn’t buy everything, or they’ve stopped playing?
What if the guild dissolved? Are former members entitled to reimbursement? What if players have joined multiple guilds?
Matching guilds: What if someone in PoE2 creates a guild with the same name as one from PoE1? Who gets priority for the name or associated points?

I was hoping for some sound counterpoints, after reading your claims, and perhaps witnessing the teetering structures of my argument(s). Unfortunately, you haven't scratched the surface. Rather, your responses read as a collection of excuses for breaking one's word, which in any dealing is generally frowned upon...often engaged in by con-artists and those bound to witness the crumbling facade of their own reputation and respectability.

The above (quoted) is interesting, so to elaborate, I'll respond.

Who gets the points?
The current guild leader gets the points.

If multiple players contributed, how do you divide them?
You don't divide them. Those points were donated to the guild.

What if the guild dissolved?
I'm not sure what you mean by 'dissolved' here, but the points go to the current guild leader.

Are former members entitled to reimbursement?
No, the guild points were donated to the guild.

What if players have joined multiple guilds?
They can once again join multiple guilds, if they so choose to do so in PoE 2, in succession, and any points donated to those guilds are no longer their property. Their membership in any guild after a donation will likely be protected for a period of time.

Matching guilds: What if someone in PoE2 creates a guild with the same name as one from PoE1? Who gets priority for the name or associated points?

Since this would involve credit based on the guild in PoE 1, the current guild leader in PoE 1 receives the points. In the circumstances you described, that person would then be forced to choose an alternate guild name, unless GGG reserves PoE 1 guild names in PoE 2 for the current PoE 1 leader.

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Helldrazi#4560 wrote:

Yeah, that limb just snapped.

Perhaps in your imagination...Unless you are deeply familiar with GGG's (relevant) backend systems, and describe in reasonable detail the wall of challenges implied by my suggestion, I'll wait for comment by someone who is actually familiar with GGG's (relevant) backend systems.

I have made no such claim of familiarity. My voiced conjecture is just that...thus the "limb". I'm not sure how thin it is, and welcome correction by an eminent authority on the subject.

Oh, this is rich. Let’s wade through the quagmire of "solutions" that somehow manage to generate even more problems.

"Who gets the points? The current guild leader gets the points."
Great. What if the guild leader hasn’t logged in for years? What if they’ve quit the game? What if they were a figurehead and did none of the heavy lifting?
The current guild leader’s role doesn’t magically solve the issue of fairness. Deciding who gets the points while ignoring the contributions of others is inherently problematic. You’re advocating for a system that makes someone an undeserving beneficiary simply because of their role.

"Those points were donated to the guild."
Sure, let’s ignore that players contributed real money. Your take boils down to “too bad, so sad—it’s a donation.” That attitude may fly for internal game mechanics, but it’s an abysmal approach to customer relations, which GGG likely understands better than you do.
Players donating for the collective benefit of the guild expect that their contributions serve the group, not just one person. Handing it all to the guild leader and calling it a day is reductive at best and exploitative at worst.

"What if the guild dissolved? Points go to the current guild leader."
If the guild is dissolved, how do you even define a "current guild leader"? Is it someone who clicked a button to disband? Someone who didn’t log in after a wipe? This opens up a Pandora’s box of who gets recognized as legitimate.

"Are former members entitled to reimbursement? No, the points were donated to the guild."
This highlights the absurdity of the suggestion. “Donated to the guild” is a convenient cop-out that ignores individual contributions. Guilds don’t buy tabs; players do. Dismissing the input of contributors as irrelevant will alienate paying customers.

"What if players have joined multiple guilds?"
The dodge here is painfully evident. The question wasn’t about whether they could join guilds later but about contributions to multiple guilds. What happens if Player A donates $100 worth of tabs to Guild X, then moves to Guild Y? Who “owns” the tabs they purchased?
Your solution sweeps these nuanced cases under the rug by pretending they don’t exist. Spoiler: they do.

"I’ll wait for comment by someone familiar with GGG’s backend systems."
Classic move: demand someone prove your suggestion impossible while offering zero evidence of feasibility. That’s not how arguments work. You’re speculating wildly about solutions while dismissing the complexities that experts—actual game developers—have already flagged.


Your "solutions" ignore reality. They oversimplify complex issues like fairness, ownership, and implementation.
You assume infallibility. GGG didn’t guarantee every feature would cross over; they promised transfers where “it made sense.” Guild systems are a logistical nightmare to migrate in a fair, balanced, and technically sound way.
GGG has no malicious intent. They’ve communicated the limitations of guild tab transfers. You’re projecting bad faith where there’s none.
If it’s so simple, feel free to code up a flawless guild migration tool yourself. Until then, leave the heavy lifting to the professionals.

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Helldrazi#4560 wrote:

quagmire...

Based on your labelling, I imagine myself struggling, slogging through the quicksand of a complex solution to a problem. :)

The thing is, in contrast, my answers to your questions describe the breeze of a very simple solution, and one that is entirely consistent with GGG's own guild point policies, to the best of my knowledge. Donated points go to the guild, to be spent by the guild leader. Thus, they have already been "handed over" (presumably into the "hands" of a trusted individual who will go on looking out for everyone's best interest in PoE 2..but that is beside the point). Players who donate have their membership protected for a span of time. It's a fairly simple system.

Perhaps if you re-read my answers and look into PoE's guild point system, my answers will make more sense?...or at least you might be able to apply more appropriate labels to my suggestions.

Until then, all the best.

its a hard one to impliment.

you cant refund the points, people bought guild tabs in poe1 and those guilds still have those tabs in poe1. you cant have the thing you bought AND get a refund on it.



the guilds are not the same and shouldnt be the same. people still playing poe1 will probably want to move to guilds active in poe1 while they might play poe2 primarily with people who only play poe2. so the guilds being mirrored would be a bad thing.


they would have to find a way to identify the people who bought the guild features and then somehow give them a voucher that they could claim the equiv guild feature in poe2 with for their current guild. as someone who has always been in guilds that have guild stashes i would love it if they would put the resources towards doing it. i do however recognise that it sounds like a lot of work and its essentially taking resources that cost money and using them to create a feature that will lose them even more money by importing probably millions of $ of mtx from poe1 that will now not be bought in poe2.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

you cant refund the points

If you were responding to my suggestion, there is no mention of refunding points.

In any case, I agree with you, refunds would be silly and ridiculously complicated on top of that.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

its a hard one to impliment.

you cant refund the points, people bought guild tabs in poe1 and those guilds still have those tabs in poe1. you cant have the thing you bought AND get a refund on it.



the guilds are not the same and shouldnt be the same. people still playing poe1 will probably want to move to guilds active in poe1 while they might play poe2 primarily with people who only play poe2. so the guilds being mirrored would be a bad thing.


they would have to find a way to identify the people who bought the guild features and then somehow give them a voucher that they could claim the equiv guild feature in poe2 with for their current guild. as someone who has always been in guilds that have guild stashes i would love it if they would put the resources towards doing it. i do however recognise that it sounds like a lot of work and its essentially taking resources that cost money and using them to create a feature that will lose them even more money by importing probably millions of $ of mtx from poe1 that will now not be bought in poe2.

PoE2 was marketed as an expansion, Some people purchased this stuff out of support for that expansion which is now no longer an expansion and also does not honor previous promises as to the future of the game, Its only right for them to honor that.

In my case i went all in and got as many of my friends to join this game as possible after Chris Wilsons words on stage at ExileCon i was a true believer and look where we are now..

And i have been asking for a very long time that Guild Micro transactions be bound to the accounts of the users who purchase them and this would result in guilds having to treat their members well to keep them in the guild otherwise if people are unhappy and leave their purchases/tabs all go with them making the unaccounted ones read-only in the guild they left so nobody loses anything.

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MoonPeace#1394 wrote:

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Helldrazi#4560 wrote:

quagmire...

Based on your labelling, I imagine myself struggling, slogging through the quicksand of a complex solution to a problem. :)

The thing is, in contrast, my answers to your questions describe the breeze of a very simple solution, and one that is entirely consistent with GGG's own guild point policies, to the best of my knowledge. Donated points go to the guild, to be spent by the guild leader. Thus, they have already been "handed over" (presumably into the "hands" of a trusted individual who will go on looking out for everyone's best interest in PoE 2..but that is beside the point). Players who donate have their membership protected for a span of time. It's a fairly simple system.

Perhaps if you re-read my answers and look into PoE's guild point system, my answers will make more sense?...or at least you might be able to apply more appropriate labels to my suggestions.

Until then, all the best.

Oh, "the breeze of a very simple solution," you say? Well, let’s savor that mental image of effortlessly floating through technical hurdles like they’re a summer zephyr. GGG must have a big red button labeled "Effortlessly Transfer Guild Assets to PoE 2" that they’re just ignoring for fun, right?

Jokes aside, if your solution feels as simple as you claim, it’s probably because you’re glossing over the nuances and assuming a perfect system. Sure, guild points currently go to the guild leader, but your "simple" transfer ignores a few key realities:

Player Dynamics: Guild leaders change, guilds dissolve, and people leave. What happens to points that were donated for specific purposes if the leader is no longer trusted or available? Not everyone plays with sunshine and rainbows in mind.
Backend Challenges: Saying “look into the system” isn’t the same as proving the system is scalable or transferable. Unless you’re privy to GGG’s backend, claiming simplicity is speculative at best.

So no, I’m not stuck in quicksand—I’m simply acknowledging the reality of these challenges instead of pretending they don’t exist. I get it; solutions look easy when you ignore the messy human and technical factors. But until you can actually show that your breeze can carry the weight of a complex, international game’s guild system, your "simple" solution is more of a draft than a gale.

Still, good luck floating through it all! Let me know when you hit turbulence.

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MoonPeace#1394 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

you cant refund the points

If you were responding to my suggestion, there is no mention of refunding points.

In any case, I agree with you, refunds would be silly and ridiculously complicated on top of that.

i was just responding to the topic in general, theres a discussion on it here but also in other threads and in twitch chats, youtube comments sections etc. ive seen mention of refunding the points from many people all over the place.


they could do it but it cant just be people getting the points back, it would have to be some sort of coupon that could be used to claim an equiv guild feature in poe2. i cant just go buy 30 guild tabs in poe1 right now, claim all those points back and then spend them on armour sets in poe2, esp when i can then use those armours in poe1.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

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MoonPeace#1394 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

you cant refund the points

If you were responding to my suggestion, there is no mention of refunding points.

In any case, I agree with you, refunds would be silly and ridiculously complicated on top of that.

i was just responding to the topic in general, theres a discussion on it here but also in other threads and in twitch chats, youtube comments sections etc. ive seen mention of refunding the points from many people all over the place.


they could do it but it cant just be people getting the points back, it would have to be some sort of coupon that could be used to claim an equiv guild feature in poe2. i cant just go buy 30 guild tabs in poe1 right now, claim all those points back and then spend them on armour sets in poe2, esp when i can then use those armours in poe1.

LOL that would be pretty on the nose indeed.

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SilentSymphony#3358 wrote:

PoE2 was marketed as an expansion, Some people purchased this stuff out of support for that expansion which is now no longer an expansion and also does not honor previous promises as to the future of the game, Its only right for them to honor that.

In my case i went all in and got as many of my friends to join this game as possible after Chris Wilsons words on stage at ExileCon i was a true believer and look where we are now..

And i have been asking for a very long time that Guild Micro transactions be bound to the accounts of the users who purchase them and this would result in guilds having to treat their members well to keep them in the guild otherwise if people are unhappy and leave their purchases/tabs all go with them making the unaccounted ones read-only in the guild they left so nobody loses anything.

Ah, the dream of a utopian guild system where microtransactions are bound to individuals and guilds are held hostage by their members’ whims. It’s like you’re suggesting we turn guilds into The Hunger Games—may the odds be ever in your favor, guild leader!

Here’s the thing: binding microtransactions to individual accounts sounds great in theory but crumbles under scrutiny:

The Great Tab Tug-of-War: Imagine a disgruntled guild member rage-quitting, taking their tabs with them, and turning the guild stash into a ghost town. Sounds healthy for collaboration, doesn’t it?

Guild Dynamics, Redefined: Guilds would have to "treat members well" to avoid tab loss. Is this PoE or the HR department of a Fortune 500 company? Last I checked, we were here to kill monsters, not negotiate employee retention.

Unaccounted Items Becoming Read-Only: Sure, nothing screams “clean solution” like locking assets in limbo. Because nothing motivates teamwork like a stash of inaccessible items sitting there, mocking everyone.

Administrative Chaos: How do you track, enforce, and maintain this system across thousands of guilds with wildly different dynamics? GGG’s technical team must be thrilled at the thought of building and maintaining that monstrosity.

Promises vs. Reality: PoE2 was marketed as an expansion. Plans changed, and they communicated that. Evolving a game into something bigger and better sometimes means breaking earlier assumptions—an uncomfortable reality, but a reality nonetheless.

In short, your suggestion adds a level of complexity that feels more like bureaucracy than improvement. Maybe we should just focus on slaying the monsters in the game rather than creating new ones in the guild system. Or, you know, appreciate that PoE2 is happening at all—even if it’s not the perfect fairy tale we imagined.