Experience loss driving some players away?

"

ventiman wrote:

something tells me your bowazon was closed battlenet softcore and thats the point if you have no penalty for death even the biggest noob will be lvl 100 at some point

btw did d2 have exp loss on death i have no idea i played hc only never got higher than 96 on my sorc

lets assume you get what you want a game without penalty you will play it for few days and thats it no thrills no excitement ohh look iam dead who cares and default would even be more pathetic than it is now

i tried to raise a life righeous fire in default its so fucking boring i have 3 exp uniques just to get over with it quick as possible i cant even stand 30min to play/leech that char

Well, I would consider myself far from noob. Along with Diablo 2, I also played Knight Online/Knight Empire. I was the leader of the top clan on the oldest server there for the longest. Again though, back in college days. I would say Knight Online was more of a grind than D2 or this game. That said, been gaming a long time. I know computers as well as I work as a network administrator. I am IT, PC, and gaming competent.

That said, why does it matter that the biggest noob finally got to 100? Does that hurt your feelings? And yes D2 had a death penalty.

You are coming off as one of the people i mentioned that are stuck up and riding a high horse.

Now, as far as the no death penalty making crap boring....even with the death penalty, it will take a good while to reach 99 in this game due to the level curve. Even then, when a player gets one to max level and gear....they roll another and start the process over again.

Now as for it making softcore more pathetic than it is now... You dont sound like you play softcore. So, why does it matter? Does it question your manhood or something?

so your lvl 99 ama was softcore why the big story for a simple answer ? shall i be impressed about someone winning a game he cant lose ? really ?

"

FadeXF wrote:

I still don't understand it.

How spiteful, little, and egotistical do you have to be to deny someone else fun?

Who gives a shit if at some point I am able to pay GGG to open a permanent league with the following rule changes:

1) No XP loss
2) 50% increase chances to 4-5-6 linking items, 50% increase chances to get off-item colors, 50% incease chances to getting 4-5-6 sockets
3) increase base rarity and quantity

Like really - why do you care? If your league is perfect for you, why would you deny someone else a league that they find equally fun? How selfish and little are you?

It boggles my mind - you do understand it makes the most business logic for GGG to add different permanent leagues, right?

So the game is absolutely flawless and perfect TO YOU - to others: there's issues like economy, death loss, and other items that they feel as a personal opinion are detrimental to their fun level in this game - that only a little tweaking that has absolutely zero impact to your life would make the game a 10 year "good time" for those individuals. And you want to deny them that fun why again?

I'm not sure how, but you don't seem to understand that additional leagues take development time and money. Every league needs to be created, maintained and balanced by GGG and since they are a very small company, it would take away significant development time for the existing leagues.

And even if they decided to add a single league without xp penalties, that would never be enough. Just from the replies in this thread, you can see that people all want different things ranging from a smaller xp penalty, to an alternative penalty other than xp, to no penalty at all. Not to mention all the other things people want like more drops, less rng, free respecs, machine guns, etc.

They can't give everyone their own little private league to play around in, and even if they did, it wouldn't change anything. Just look at D3. From the very start, people whined about difficulty and look drops. Blizzard listened, and guess what? People realized the game had become boring and pointless and they still left, and all they did was ruin the game for the people who weren't complaining. In fact, I imagine some of the people complaining in this very thread are the same people who complained early on in D3, and now they moved on and they're here. If you don't like the game and disagree with the core features, odds are you'll never like it. Just move on.

Luckily, it seems like the people at GGG are smart enough to understand this. They created this game to be the kind of game they'd want to play themselves, and they DON'T want it to appeal to everyone, like some people seem to think. You can call "bad business practices" or spout doom scenerios about people leaving all you want, but the fact is that they've done very well so far considering the small startup company that they are.

TL;DR Stop acting like there's no downside to more options because it's a bad argument and not true at all.

"

Luckily, it seems like the people at GGG are smart enough to understand this. They created this game to be the kind of game they'd want to play themselves, and they DON'T want it to appeal to everyone, like some people seem to think.

I don't think it's super helpful to cite what we think they may be thinking, because indeed I am sure that changes slowly over a period of time, as they adapt the game to business climate. While I sure there core values will remain the same, as such things have the wont to do, we should probably not make a habit of referring to any past claims of theirs as verse from the Bible.

I think your comments about new leagues having the net result of removing development from present ones is obvious and irrefutable. There's also a point I didn't see recently, and that is a new league like "easycore" does have the risk of taking players who are current diligently sticking with the game quickly out of circulation, on the grounds they might be tempted into the new league, and defeat the content too quickly. In theory.

It doesn't hurt to say that we support, notionally, the way that various players want to play. Obviously, GGG isn't go out of their way to focus developmental assets on something that is far from their core message, unless the financials say that they have to. But said financials said that they had to, I imagine they would.

--C

"

I actually don't think it takes that much to change the games or even manage new Leagues if you consider all of the various Race Leagues they have and how completely different a lot of them already are game wise.

Suppose you are right. Would you pay $20 for the right to enter an easycore league? What if the deal were sweetened, and you could have your $20 converted to microtransactions as part of the deal or as contingent upon some other series of events in game?

Out of curiosity?

--C

I think 50% of players quit after dying on the way to lvl 80.

"

FadeXF wrote:

"

Fwib wrote:

"

FadeXF wrote:

I still don't understand it.

How spiteful, little, and egotistical do you have to be to deny someone else fun?

Who gives a shit if at some point I am able to pay GGG to open a permanent league with the following rule changes:

1) No XP loss
2) 50% increase chances to 4-5-6 linking items, 50% increase chances to get off-item colors, 50% incease chances to getting 4-5-6 sockets
3) increase base rarity and quantity

Like really - why do you care? If your league is perfect for you, why would you deny someone else a league that they find equally fun? How selfish and little are you?

It boggles my mind - you do understand it makes the most business logic for GGG to add different permanent leagues, right?

So the game is absolutely flawless and perfect TO YOU - to others: there's issues like economy, death loss, and other items that they feel as a personal opinion are detrimental to their fun level in this game - that only a little tweaking that has absolutely zero impact to your life would make the game a 10 year "good time" for those individuals. And you want to deny them that fun why again?

I'm not sure how, but you don't seem to understand that additional leagues take development time and money. Every league needs to be created, maintained and balanced by GGG and since they are a very small company, it would take away significant development time for the existing leagues.

And even if they decided to add a single league without xp penalties, that would never be enough. Just from the replies in this thread, you can see that people all want different things ranging from a smaller xp penalty, to an alternative penalty other than xp, to no penalty at all. Not to mention all the other things people want like more drops, less rng, free respecs, machine guns, etc.

They can't give everyone their own little private league to play around in, and even if they did, it wouldn't change anything. Just look at D3. From the very start, people whined about difficulty and look drops. Blizzard listened, and guess what? People realized the game had become boring and pointless and they still left, and all they did was ruin the game for the people who weren't complaining. If you don't like the game and disagree with the core features, odds are you'll never like it. Just move on.

Luckily, it seems like the people at GGG are smart enough to understand this. They created this game to be the kind of game they'd want to play themselves, and they DON'T want it to appeal to everyone, like some people seem to think. You can call "bad business practices" or spout doom scenerios about people leaving all you want, but the fact is that they've done very well so far considering the small startup company that they are.

I actually don't think it takes that much to change the games or even manage new Leagues if you consider all of the various Race Leagues they have and how completely different a lot of them already are game wise. I'm not as convinced as you are - you could be right, I'm not going to deny that... but my instinct says you are probably not right.


At any rate: it's a shame - and I get they just want this little project and not expand it. So many good things with the game - I just wish I could continue playing it and enjoying it... and paying GGG more. I wish I could recommend the game to friends and family too. =(

It doesn't really matter how much it costs them. My main point is that you shouldn't just use the "add more options, doesn't hurt anyone" argument whenever you want something changed because its a bad argument and it's not productive at all.

If I started spamming threads requesting an optional future wreaclast league where we killed robots with guns and attack drones because I didn't like all this medieval crap, wouldn't you tell me to fuck off and go play another game?

"

If I started spamming threads requesting an optional future wreaclast league where we killed robots with guns and attack drones because I didn't like all this medieval crap, wouldn't you tell me to fuck off and go play another game?

You're saying that offering few different high level leagues in PoE is a slipperly slope that would inevitably lead to robots, laser guns, and pink unicorns?

No, tell me it isn't so. ;-P

Anyway, treating the matter more seriously, if PoE were my game to run, and I were even considering the easycore league, I'd be thinking about trying to come up with clever ways of incenting players to not actually play it, perhaps at the same time as I was thinking about how I pay my employees.

I'm not really sure how to do that. Easycore league would, obviously, be replete with lots of stuff. But wiping away that fact all handy-waivy like, I imagine that default players had more stuff and could sell it to easycore. You'd have all these easycore players jealous, and wanting tow switch to Default.

A league intersale option obviously can't be the answer, but you can taste the flavour of the thing I'd be thinking of, even if I'm still scratching my head on an actual answer. ;-P

--C

"

Taelis wrote:

I've been playing FFXI off and on for the last ten years.. I don't know why or how it took you a year and a half to get a level 75, but unless you were on a crappy server, or playing undesirable jobs that no one wanted to party with it should not have taken you so long. I got 1-75 on my BST in a matter of a month and a half, and 1-75 on my thief in 2 months. And using FFXI as your point is a bad example because today you can get 1-99 in a matter of 8 hours.

Yes, I was not refering to the crapfest it has become. Abyssea is the reason me and about 8 friends do not play it anymore. Also my first job was Summoner, and being that I did not have Fenrir until late 60's it was very hard for me to get a group. I wasn't really refering to classes who found parties easy. I had 7, 75's and my Summoner took the longest by far. Thf wasn't too bad.

Reagrdless, in XI you lost exp, you lost levels. You did end game and lost usually a LOT of exp. And for a Job no one cared about outside of end game, that was tough. Now-a-days we all know what XI has become.

And I still welcome games with EXp loss, and Level loss. Wishing more games did this, ala EQ/XI.

Thats not even remotely the same thing. You're asking for a completely different game. All I'm asking for is a tweaked text file. Or let me tweak it myself.

It's why I love FPS so much, you can setup the server anyway you want.

Stop acting like having options will ruin the game, it's a very stupid notion.

It's a much stronger argument than if you don't like it leave, all the does is end up killing the game.