Crucible is peak PoE and it's not even close.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

form of mandatory development required on every character to achieve the moved power level.

Isn't this the thing with all progression systems, though? Harvest. Cluster jewels. Expansions to the passive tree. Hell, even Ascendancy Classes.

I love new progression systems. I love new ways to further specialize and customize my characters. I love new things to learn, solve and progress through. If every league was just "throw more monsters into the mix, and give them rewards", the game wouldn't be where it is today. I don't want the game to reach a "standby mode".

But we are all different and want different things from the game.

There is a big difference between harvest and crucible. Harvest raised the floor while the ceiling remained the same. The people who already had 6xt1 items before harvest didn't get any stronger because of it, at most they had a slightly easier time getting those items. It brought average joe and no life mike closer together.

Crucible does effect the floor to some extent, some flat damage and local attack speed typically, maybe a notable for free is about the best you can hope to get out of it as a normal player. The nolifers meanwhile... doubled or trippled their dps with it.

Even if they removed all the downsides of the mechanic (and we all know that isn't happening) i'd pick harvest over crucible any time because of that. If crucible went core it would be followed by massive nerfs elsewhere that mostly hit the low end as usual increasing the gap between haves and have nots even further. It's the same type of thing like with the flask nerfs to introduce mageblood. Everyone suffers so the 0,0000000000001 can get even more...

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Baharoth15 wrote:

There is a big difference between harvest and crucible. Harvest raised the floor while the ceiling remained the same. The people who already had 6xt1 items before harvest didn't get any stronger because of it, at most they had a slightly easier time getting those items. It brought average joe and no life mike closer together.

Crucible does effect the floor to some extent, some flat damage and local attack speed typically, maybe a notable for free is about the best you can hope to get out of it as a normal player. The nolifers meanwhile... doubled or trippled their dps with it.

Even if they removed all the downsides of the mechanic (and we all know that isn't happening) i'd pick harvest over crucible any time because of that. If crucible went core it would be followed by massive nerfs elsewhere that mostly hit the low end as usual increasing the gap between haves and have nots even further. It's the same type of thing like with the flask nerfs to introduce mageblood. Everyone suffers so the 0,0000000000001 can get even more...

Smack bang on the point.

Crucible takes rng and exponentiates it. Layering another full level of rng mods on an item that already requires extremely unlikely combinations of mods to be functional in the first place is the exact opposite of harvest, and the reason that harvest was popular. As the poster I quoted said; harvest crunched the range between the floor and the ceiling, which improves the experience for the vast majority of players, while crucible, through its exponentiating nature, increases the floor by a miniscule amount and the ceiling by an overwhelming amount.

The statement

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Crucible is THE League to play PoE and try new things or explore your favourite builds.

is extremely out of touch with the vast majority of players who play PoE. What can theoretically be achieved is largely irrelevant to most players - to most players, what matters is what can realistically be achieved with a reasonable level of effort.

Crucible is not comparable to other leagues primarily because of the nature of layered RNG systems. In most (all?) previous leagues, the rng aspect of the league replaced that of the normal game (ie: affecting a mod on the item that replaces a normal mod on the item), or was a singular dimension (ie: 1 single prefix/affix rather than a full tree of them).

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Baharoth15 wrote:

There is a big difference between harvest and crucible. Harvest raised the floor while the ceiling remained the same. The people who already had 6xt1 items before harvest didn't get any stronger because of it, at most they had a slightly easier time getting those items. It brought average joe and no life mike closer together.

Crucible does effect the floor to some extent, some flat damage and local attack speed typically, maybe a notable for free is about the best you can hope to get out of it as a normal player. The nolifers meanwhile... doubled or trippled their dps with it.

Even if they removed all the downsides of the mechanic (and we all know that isn't happening) i'd pick harvest over crucible any time because of that. If crucible went core it would be followed by massive nerfs elsewhere that mostly hit the low end as usual increasing the gap between haves and have nots even further. It's the same type of thing like with the flask nerfs to introduce mageblood. Everyone suffers so the 0,0000000000001 can get even more...

Yeah, essentially with Hrvest instead of t1-3 life and res before rich people now have t1 life and res everywhere. That's it. But Harvest let more people to use decent gear (just decent gear).

You couldn't be more wrong about floor though. It's easy to make basic 2-3 passive trees. You can even buy ready to use trees for basically nothing. Most passives are cheap. Smashing items together is cheap. Odds are good. And high-end stuff is actually achievable for any dedicated player, not just 0.01% like in other Leagues. Crucible couldn't be more favourable to players.

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Gopstop22 wrote:

Do you even understand what peak means? it has nothing to do with power creep it means when PoE was at its best state of the game so my memory is okay

Again, I am talking about builds first and foremost. But even then basegame is very good right now, arguably best it ever was as well.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Gopstop22 wrote:

Do you even understand what peak means? it has nothing to do with power creep it means when PoE was at its best state of the game so my memory is okay

You didn't really read beyond the title before posting did you? OP literally said what he was talking about in his first sentence...

Crucible is honestly just plain bad in my opinion. The mechanic itself is bad and while it provides ton of power it's just plain powercreep in unheard of proportions.
I just hope it really doesn't go core because i can also imagine a scenario where it does go core and in exchange GGG nerfs all weapon and shield bases + affix tiers bei ~50% to compensate so we'd be stuck with being forced to use that shitty mechanic and in the end still end up with less power unless we spend a lifetime on a single tree.
It would just further lower the powerfloor and shoot the powerceiling through the roof i.e the core mistake to GGGs "balancing". The game really doesn't need more of that..

Not gonna lie - I just want next League to provide even more powercreep and possibilities than Crucible, but that would be massive copium. Given their trackrecord builds will never be as powerful as they are in Crucible.

A cynic would say that hitting a peak means it's downhill from there.

I don't think Crucible is the best GGG has had to offer in their history, nor will it be the best yet to come with PoE 4.0 on the horizon.

Now I suppose it could fall flat and they never get the Crucible numbers again (which are inflated imo), but I suspect people will at least try the marketed novelty known as PoE2.

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"Pathological...[/quote wrote:

What are you talking about? Did you actually played the League? Did you researched how it works and what it takes at all? How many items you made?

Crucible doesn't provide power to normal player? You couldn't be more wrong. You can get most power out of Crucible for barely any investment, because most passives are not worth much and smashing them together is cheap and odds are good. You can draw out major portion of Crucible's power for less than a Divine. ._. This is unheard of.

With reasonable ammount of effort one can unlock full potential of Crucible. Crucible strikes perfect balance. It's easy to make 2-3 passive trees but full trees are still doable for any dedicated players unlike in previous Leagues where only 0.01% could strive for this. Drawing power from League mechanic was never this accessible. It was never this doable. Crucible couldn't be more favourable to the player.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

A cynic would say that hitting a peak means it's downhill from there.

I don't think Crucible is the best GGG has had to offer in theor history, nor will it be the best yet to come with PoE 4.0 on the horizon.

Now I suppose it could fall flat and they never get the Crucible numbers again (which are inflated imo), but I suspect people will at least try the marketed novelty known as PoE2.

I am talking only in terms of raw power and build possibilities provided by League mechanic. I am sure GGG will make better League and improve base game even more, but builds...builds will never be as powerful as they are in CRucible. Crucible seems like outlier among recent'ish Leagues and given direction game is going at - baseline power will be nerfed yet again in next patch on top of all things. Next League will need to do a ton to catch up.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

I am talking only in terms of raw power and build possibilities provided by League mechanic. I am sure GGG will make better League and improve base game even more, but builds...builds will never be as powerful as they are in CRucible. Crucible seems like outlier among recent'ish Leagues and given direction game is going at - baseline power will be nerfed yet again in next patch on top of all things. Next League will need to do a ton to catch up.

I totally agree that it is one of the most powerful leagues that poe has released.
It seems to me that this time GGG combined some positive experiences from previous leagues such as Harvest and Sentinel and incorporated them here.
There's good fun here for all types of players:
players (only), crafters, traders, collectors etc.

it will be rly hard for a lot of players in a new league since GGG will take away all crucible power. we will see so much bashing and crying that pll lost so much power. it will be a new harvest level hate.

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anti4z500 wrote:

it will be rly hard for a lot of players in a new league since GGG will take away all crucible power. we will see so much bashing and crying that pll lost so much power. it will be a new harvest level hate.

Nah, I think most players are fully prepared for Crucible not to go core.

What made Harvest so dramatic, was GGG's yo-yo'ing. It took them one Harvest league, one hiatus during Heist league to "balance Harvest", and one Ritual league where they, somehow, added Harvest back in with full power for them to realize they've fucked up - and started nerfing it appropriately.

Crucible will just... Go away. No biggie.