It's time for GGG to take back reigns of trade for the sake of the game

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

Better term would be price fixing.
As interest group could buy out whole listings in some moment of something that is in low supply and put whatever price they want.

Point is, with auction house it would be very easy to manipulate market. No one want's that to happen.

That makes even less sense. If there is low listings it can mean it's an very rare item, demand is high or it's a recently discovered item, all which make the item have high prices. That happened with Echoforge, high prices at release, low prices after no use has been found.

Market regulates itself when you can't back out of a trade, and that's all the security that makes price fixers cowards, as bullshit prices are bought out outright. Trade would flow a lot more freely, items would be easy to access, and THAT'S the only reason gx3 doesn't want to implement it, because of VisionTM. All the other bad shit that happens because they can't back out of the VisionTM that trading needs to be hard and grueling.

Price fixing only works when one group controls ALL the listings, which is very hard in a game like PoE with multiple groups that generate wealth from multiple sources and any(most) items can drop anywhere(contrary to old Lab, which was one guy with literally all the supply).

I would gladly pay to see AH alive than to keep this old wheel moving without solid proof it's the only wheel that works.

If you haven't noticed, GGG uses tons of third party tools to cut their costs. PoB, CraftOfExile, Trove, Wiki (until recently) is all run by others. If you think they are going to give up on the free labor to incorporate QoL into their game, I have a bridge to sell you.

tft is toast.

regarding AH


things ud see in the diablo 3 auction house tended to revolve around fixed items like gems, which would be the same with anything in the bulk exchange on our trade. rare items are too individual, its messy. but a bot can understand a fixed static thing like an alch, a divine, a fragment, a fossil.


in D3 there was a price floor for gems. if you listed a gem below a certain value a bot would instantly buy it, and then relist it for this benchmark value the people running these bots had set. they controlled the market, they set the price, you list below the price the bots will snipe it, no gems are allowed to be bought for less than their set floor. once they control the market they can raise or lower that floor at will as long as they can afford the mass buyout of everything below the new value.

because the system was an automated instant AH bots could completely control a market sector like this.


right now a person is not gonna buy 168 fossils off guy A and then relist them, sell them to guys B, C and D to make 1 chaos total profit. its just not worth anyones time to go through that for such a small margin. if you allow an automated AH where bots can just make 100s and 100s of trades, accounts are free to make, bots can level characters and farm currency etc on their own, they can use an ah on their own and do what it takes to get an account to a point where it has access. a bot can make a small trade it would currently be a waste of time for a person to make in order to make a tiny margin, but it can make so many of them it becomes super profitable and then it can control prices by enforcing a bench mark value and instantly buying anything below the mark. its potentially quite dangerous to let bots loose like that.






the idea has been out around a fair bit, ive put it around myself a number of times, people currently use trade bots to sell for them. the bot sits in their hideout and sells items to real people whispering trades. the idea is ggg giving us all a sell bot like that so we dont have to be there to sell. that in itself fixes the price fixing thing right? you dont need the ability of a bot to automatically buy a thing, you just need a bot to be selling the thing so that it has to be sold for the listed price. people can see ok, this is the cheapest listing being sold by an hideout bot, thats the actual value. i can whisper these other people but theres a good chance theyre just price fixers.

once we could list through tabs and search poe.xyz we stopped doing the whole browse the trade forum garbage. if u have a system like that it will become the standard and with it comes an inability to price fix through fake listing the way we have now which is so bloody annoying when the first 30 people u whisper arnt really selling, theyre all just part of an organised attempt to price fix.



the whole price fixing through fake listing is a big problem, but fully automated buy/sell ah is also problematic. i feel like theres valid points on both sides for and against both of these models, theyre both very open to abuse.

There's already a path of exile discord (discord.gg/pathofexile) that some ggg employees participate in. I think a lot of the tft issues could be resolved if service channels were added there and GGG adopted an active roll of moderating. Make it official like they did the wiki.

It could basically be a GGG sanctioned version of tft.

GGG discord for trades and services while tft goes back to just being a mirror shop.

I know it's wishful thinking, but imo at least it seems like the quickest and easiest way to address the issues.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

If it's a commodity and speed for everyone, it's literally impossible to have monopoly on it. If there's hundreds of people live searching for something, it's up to chance who gets it first.

Not when 99 of those 100 are from the same "group" and/or are bots, 'working' for the same group.

easiest way to resolve the issue without interacting with tft staff in any shape or form would be for chris to introduce some crazy eldrich implicits for weapon, shield, quiver, ring and so on typical synth bases. if you can self craft similar weapon with 10-15%less dps but for like 100div instead of multi-mirrors, only very few will resort to mirroring items and buying stuff with real money.

brick all those mirror shops.


imagine the tears of joy in my eyes - it would be magnificent!

It's like the war on drugs. It isn't won focusing on the "small guys"; the users on the street. Hell, it will never be "won" at all. But the largest wins come when they eliminate the Dons, the big players, the Esobars, the El Chapos.

It goes without saying that the largest, most powerful, most organized "currency networks" in PoE is infiltrated by a lot of RMTers. There are rotten tomatoes everywhere, hence there are rotten tomatoes in TFT. I'm not a big fan of rumors and hearsay, so names are irrelevant, but when there's a certain hierarchy in TFT, and the same names - on top of that hierarchy - are being named as RMTers over and over again, it's hard to ignore it.

But solutions are hard. It's not like GGG should implement "mirror services" or "boss services" in game. I seriously do not think that belong in the game. The only solution I can see, is to limit the amount of times an item can be mirrored. Personally, wouldn't mind that.

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Phrazz wrote:

It's like the war on drugs. It isn't won focusing on the "small guys"; the users on the street. Hell, it will never be "won" at all. But the largest wins come when they eliminate the Dons, the big players, the Esobars, the El Chapos.

It goes without saying that the largest, most powerful, most organized "currency networks" in PoE is infiltrated by a lot of RMTers. There are rotten tomatoes everywhere, hence there are rotten tomatoes in TFT. I'm not a big fan of rumors and hearsay, so names are irrelevant, but when there's a certain hierarchy in TFT, and the same names - on top of that hierarchy - are being named as RMTers over and over again, it's hard to ignore it.

But solutions are hard. It's not like GGG should implement "mirror services" or "boss services" in game. I seriously do not think that belong in the game. The only solution I can see, is to limit the amount of times an item can be mirrored. Personally, wouldn't mind that.

I'd argue its bigger than that. It's not like GGG has no clue what's going on, they are ambivalent at best, and at worst they are complicit with some of the RMT that's happening (which I'm not accusing, but they have a history here). GGG seems to like where trade is at in general. Or if they are not, they certainly havent said or done anything about it.

The main issue is to me is that if you keep basically avoiding the issue the community will find work arounds, cheats, tools, exploit, etc...

Hell the new PoB feature literally selects an item upgrade for you now that's for sale. You don't have to even understand why it's an upgrade for you lol. We really have jumped the shark on some of these community tools, and it's because GGG intentionally wants to do it this way.

It annoys me greatly, but it is what it is.

GGG really only needs to do two things:

(1) Commodity trading automated out of premium tabs
basically an AH "lite" if you will, or a "vender" in your HO.

(2) Make a slot on the trade window for a mirror to be used and the other players item doesn't get traded. A simple 2x8 and a 1x1 slot on the window where item goes in on 1 side, mirror placed on others and activated/consumed on trade.


Do these two things, and people don't need most 3rd party BS (as it relates to trading).