Launch Date and World of Warcraft

Related to both of your queries/points, a single observation: the last time GGG really displayed that 'brilliance under pressure' was possibly the early days (CB) when Diablo was the assumed king of the ARPG hill and PoE the Little Upstart That Could, and here we are saying, one way or another, that same pressure may return but under the exact opposite circumstances -- Diablo is now the competition that might wake the sleeping, complacent hydra.

I suggest we all take just take a moment to *really* appreciate that.

Because wow.

Last Epoch announced their multiplayer to be March 9th - which would be right in line with PoE 3.21 launch.

Should GGG move the release date of 3.21? With all the talk about whether or not WoW/CP77 are legitimately 'within the genre' as competitors, we surely agree that LE is in the genre.

Suppose it starts getting more hype, and LE does the old (new I guess) 'pay every streamer under the sun' to help blast their game into the consciousness of an extra 200k people...should GGG move their league date?

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innervation wrote:

Last Epoch announced their multiplayer to be March 9th - which would be right in line with PoE 3.21 launch.

Should GGG move the release date of 3.21? With all the talk about whether or not WoW/CP77 are legitimately 'within the genre' as competitors, we surely agree that LE is in the genre.

Suppose it starts getting more hype, and LE does the old (new I guess) 'pay every streamer under the sun' to help blast their game into the consciousness of an extra 200k people...should GGG move their league date?

Hmmm, will Last Epoch ever leave beta?

In April 2019, the game's beta was made available via Steam Early Access.

Is there another game that has been in early access for 4+ years?

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zakalwe55 wrote:

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innervation wrote:

Last Epoch announced their multiplayer to be March 9th - which would be right in line with PoE 3.21 launch.

Should GGG move the release date of 3.21? With all the talk about whether or not WoW/CP77 are legitimately 'within the genre' as competitors, we surely agree that LE is in the genre.

Suppose it starts getting more hype, and LE does the old (new I guess) 'pay every streamer under the sun' to help blast their game into the consciousness of an extra 200k people...should GGG move their league date?

Hmmm, will Last Epoch ever leave beta?

In April 2019, the game's beta was made available via Steam Early Access.

Is there another game that has been in early access for 4+ years?

Path of Exile? BWAHAHAHHAA.

I'd say Star Citizen but I'm not sure that qualifies as a 'game'. I mean, there's playing but it's not the 'game' being played.

Serious serious answer, Wolcen came close. 2017 EA after its renaming from Umbra, 2020 release. And PoE was in 'testing' for just over two years. Weird how this seems an ARPG thing, this prolonged beta/EA. Maybe they're just harder to get 'right' (and in Wolcen's case, not even close to 'right' sadly).

Beyond that, Fortnite had a lengthy 3 year EA period, most of which was spent in the game's secondary Battle Royale mode.

Basically, as the GAAS/online-only model becomes the norm and content delivery/updates are less a bonus and more a given, 'early access' is going to continue to lose its stigma as merely a 'demo' or 'beta testing' phase. After all, *so* many of these early access periods now stress that your progress will carry over to the main release, which was unthinkable of, say, PoE's beta given the changes...but of course people don't want to 'waste their time' in EA if it means losing their progress so increasingly we're seeing devs basically push a much more polished, confident product as 'EA' less for testing and more just to soft launch and, well, make money.

On a more insidious level (and we see this a LOT on mobile), an early access title often cannot be reviewed by users and so bad early feedback can be drowned out by clever marketing and PR. I don't think I need to name the most recent big name example of this.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Diablo is now the competition that might wake the sleeping, complacent hydra.

Maybe but I doubt it.

And not because of a lack of talent, or drive, or design brilliance, but because of technical limitations in their engine and net code, and the crucial decison to not make a next gen sequel, but tie an expansion to an admittedly "old" game.

Momentum is going to be a hard thing to steal back from D4 given the known scope of PoE's 4.0, which is a shared current endgame with alternative campaign, and some mechanical tweaks. The prospect of unlocking the atlas every 3 months for the next 5 years in "PoE2" doesnt exactly have me standing up and fist pumping...

Overall It's a daunting task, and the stakes are much higher now given how much GGG has grown. It could very well be a bumpy road here in the near term. The anxiety CW must have with so many people counting on him right now... ugh not enviable in the least. As much as I'm critical about the design decisons recently, and development direction, I actually do wish them well. A competitive GGG & PoE is good for all gamers in this genre.

In the current era is always some big update or new game releasing, even in just the ARPG genre do we have many frequently updated games. Many of us also play multiple genres, like I won't play POE near ARK 2 release date even if that is poe2 its release date.

POE's frequent update model has spread to nearly all popular games, a big update is always around the corner.

Judging by what wow classic did to blight league, well it was obvious. Not so sure what the impact of retail wow addons is these days tho. I personally wouldnt expect there to be a massive impact on the launch day numbers.

Just a feeling based on what i saw on wow streams these days, it was very mediocre (imo). And there are a few days inbetween anyway. Might be wrong on this one, who knows.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Diablo is now the competition that might wake the sleeping, complacent hydra.

Maybe but I doubt it.

And not because of a lack of talent, or drive, or design brilliance, but because of technical limitations in their engine and net code, and the crucial decison to not make a next gen sequel, but tie an expansion to an admittedly "old" game.

Momentum is going to be a hard thing to steal back from D4 given the known scope of PoE's 4.0, which is a shared current endgame with alternative campaign, and some mechanical tweaks. The prospect of unlocking the atlas every 3 months for the next 5 years in "PoE2" doesnt exactly have me standing up and fist pumping...

I have a feeling that once you've spent several minutes backtracking through the already cleared corridors of a D4 dungeon for the umpteenth time just to reach the other progression objective you may well wish you were unlocking your atlas again. You'll certainly have plenty of time to contemplate it

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RandallPOE wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Diablo is now the competition that might wake the sleeping, complacent hydra.

Maybe but I doubt it.

And not because of a lack of talent, or drive, or design brilliance, but because of technical limitations in their engine and net code, and the crucial decison to not make a next gen sequel, but tie an expansion to an admittedly "old" game.

Momentum is going to be a hard thing to steal back from D4 given the known scope of PoE's 4.0, which is a shared current endgame with alternative campaign, and some mechanical tweaks. The prospect of unlocking the atlas every 3 months for the next 5 years in "PoE2" doesnt exactly have me standing up and fist pumping...

I have a feeling that once you've spent several minutes backtracking through the already cleared corridors of a D4 dungeon for the umpteenth time just to reach the other progression objective you may well wish you were unlocking your atlas again. You'll certainly have plenty of time to contemplate it

Perhaps. I wont know until it's out. I do know what the PoE repetition cycle is, and that isn't changing by all accounts.

Either way it's not really a binary choice. I suspect there will be a significant number of people that play both D4 and PoE, and may do so seasonally depending on how the live service goes. Initially D4 will be at an advantage here but if its subpar I could see PoE coming back if the 4.0 mechanics are good.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Perhaps. I wont know until it's out. I do know what the PoE repetition cycle is, and that isn't changing by all accounts.

Either way it's not really a binary choice. I suspect there will be a significant number of people that play both D4 and PoE, and may do so seasonally depending on how the live service goes. Initially D4 will be at an advantage here but if its subpar I could see PoE coming back if the 4.0 mechanics are good.

Indeed, I have no doubt the POE league that coincides with the D4 launch will be an absolute barren wasteland. Beyond that I'm not so sure, still if D4 like D3 only provides a week or so entertainment per season that's fine for a lot of people.