Loot goblins problem will be even worse in 3.20 Update 3 after two weeks of Sanctum.

"

6_din_49 wrote:

If some players enjoy spending 15 min/map, or farming low tier maps because they wear MF gear, good for them.

Personally I prefer "fast mapper" play style - instead of clearing 5 maps/h with loot 2x, I'd rather clear 20+ maps/h with loot 1x. Yes, I get less loot per "loot goblin", but I find more "loot goblins" per hour.

That's the point. If you try to fit some MF into non meta fun build you will lose efficiency. But if you use MF meta build you will blast those t16 even in MF gear.

Reason for this is described in OP post. Old MF was all about quantity. And quantity means uniques. Windripper, voidforge, sadimas, goldwyrm, ventors and t3 maps. But now with rarity scaling you can build very fast and efficient MF builds. You not enchained by uniques anymore. Moreover, if you build correctly you will outperform most non MF builds.

Bad things become worse when players began to plan MF gear in their builds. When this happens you can definetly expect GGG to plan drops with MF gear in mind. This was already started with removing of "historical bonus". The reason was simple - with historical bonus and MF gear 40 divines explosions became half mirror explosions. And as you know after previous league only dedicated MF char can see 40 divines drop.

So like it or not, with current rarity scaling system always be MF guy capable of doing same maps as you, but faster and get six times rewards. Remember, no FOMO.

"

Reinhart wrote:

Movemend speed problem will be even worse in 3.20 Update 1.

Movement speed makes your character faster and will now be mandatory because it gives you more currency per hour. That is a problem. You do not want to feel left out. Movement speed should be an option but it is not! Movement speed needs to be deleted!

You tried to joke but GGG is concerned about movement speed.

Ruthless will be very interesting with people crawling around with no travel skills, and difficulty finding ms boots.

Not my cup of tea, but I acknowledge some people like being stepped on.

"

shadow_rps wrote:

"

6_din_49 wrote:

If some players enjoy spending 15 min/map, or farming low tier maps because they wear MF gear, good for them.

Personally I prefer "fast mapper" play style - instead of clearing 5 maps/h with loot 2x, I'd rather clear 20+ maps/h with loot 1x. Yes, I get less loot per "loot goblin", but I find more "loot goblins" per hour.

That's the point. If you try to fit some MF into non meta fun build you will lose efficiency. But if you use MF meta build you will blast those t16 even in MF gear.

Reason for this is described in OP post. Old MF was all about quantity. And quantity means uniques. Windripper, voidforge, sadimas, goldwyrm, ventors and t3 maps. But now with rarity scaling you can build very fast and efficient MF builds. You not enchained by uniques anymore. Moreover, if you build correctly you will outperform most non MF builds.

Bad things become worse when players began to plan MF gear in their builds. When this happens you can definetly expect GGG to plan drops with MF gear in mind. This was already started with removing of "historical bonus". The reason was simple - with historical bonus and MF gear 40 divines explosions became half mirror explosions. And as you know after previous league only dedicated MF char can see 40 divines drop.

So like it or not, with current rarity scaling system always be MF guy capable of doing same maps as you, but faster and get six times rewards. Remember, no FOMO.

A lot of information here is wrong, These builds are not as easy as you're claiming to make.

I have thousands of hours as a rarefinder chasing iiq and iir and while you can make good builds that clear fast it is not without significant investment in most cases.

If its so easy why don't some of the people saying this stuff about Rarefinders actually post a build proving they have any experience at all to back up these claims.

"

leto2626 wrote:

I don't get people like this OP. ALready jumping to conclusions, focusing on this weird MF thing all the time... I bet people like him have never played the game normally.

Also with the whole MF thing, can't we just get rid of this relic from the past? To me it makes no sense that people like this OP tellign me to wear utter crap uniques to get more chaos orbs per hour. We should always be playing in the most powerful gear we can get. Just my two cents.

It was fine before loot goblins, but with loot goblins MF is just too powerful.

"

pr13st wrote:

It's fine they wanted to kill MF swap or hiring from discord server.

As for the hidden loot goblin, well shit you could be missing out on a mirror with no IIQ equipped. Definitely better than before while still maintaining enough FOMO to keep MF interesting.

I would've preferred that the rewards from the goblin increase with diminishing returns but we'll see plenty of "oMg jUSt DroPpEd 50 DivINes" posts.

Hmm wait, do the loot goblins still have lunaris/ solaris animations? If so nothing's changed lol.

Instead of contacting MF Culler or swapping to MF gear you now have to play MF character. Hiding loot goblin is weird change that on it's own only makes things worse.

Loot goblins are not tied to mods and therefore visuals so you shouldn't be able to tell.

"

Crimvaal wrote:

"

SunL4D2 wrote:

You now need to wear MF gear at all times.

No you don't. This is a non issue unless you don't know how to keep your fomo in check. Cheers.

Teach us the way sensei. Also it could be that you don't know the difference between the drops from loot goblins with and without MF. It's basically 4 chaos orbs vs Divine+ everytime, which is massive.

"

bgdmm wrote:

"

RitualMurder wrote:

sweet lord people
will nothing make you happy?

its getting sad now...

just stop

AN is gone

yes some monsters should drop better

"oh no people who play in groups have an advantage" you say

welcome to how the game has always been nice to have you join us since 2014

stop it now

go away with these garbage posts already

This.

Nope, both you and commenter are absolutely wrong here.

"

6_din_49 wrote:

"

leto2626 wrote:

I don't get people like this OP. ALready jumping to conclusions, focusing on this weird MF thing all the time... I bet people like him have never played the game normally.

Also with the whole MF thing, can't we just get rid of this relic from the past? To me it makes no sense that people like this OP tellign me to wear utter crap uniques to get more chaos orbs per hour. We should always be playing in the most powerful gear we can get. Just my two cents.

If some players enjoy spending 15 min/map, or farming low tier maps because they wear MF gear, good for them.

Personally I prefer "fast mapper" play style - instead of clearing 5 maps/h with loot 2x, I'd rather clear 20+ maps/h with loot 1x. Yes, I get less loot per "loot goblin", but I find more "loot goblins" per hour.

I try to raise awareness because it doesn't look good so far and even more worrying after GGG posted FAQ. MF is completely fine, but not when it sacles loot goblins in specialway.

"

leto2626 wrote:

I don't get people like this OP. ALready jumping to conclusions, focusing on this weird MF thing all the time... I bet people like him have never played the game normally.

Also with the whole MF thing, can't we just get rid of this relic from the past? To me it makes no sense that people like this OP tellign me to wear utter crap uniques to get more chaos orbs per hour. We should always be playing in the most powerful gear we can get. Just my two cents.

It was fine before loot goblins, but with loot goblins MF is just too powerful.

"

pr13st wrote:

It's fine they wanted to kill MF swap or hiring from discord server.

As for the hidden loot goblin, well shit you could be missing out on a mirror with no IIQ equipped. Definitely better than before while still maintaining enough FOMO to keep MF interesting.

I would've preferred that the rewards from the goblin increase with diminishing returns but we'll see plenty of "oMg jUSt DroPpEd 50 DivINes" posts.

Hmm wait, do the loot goblins still have lunaris/ solaris animations? If so nothing's changed lol.

Instead of contacting MF Culler or swapping to MF gear you now have to play MF character. Hiding loot goblin is weird change that on it's own only makes things worse.

Loot goblins are not tied to mods and therefore visuals so you shouldn't be able to tell.

"

Crimvaal wrote:

"

SunL4D2 wrote:

You now need to wear MF gear at all times.

No you don't. This is a non issue unless you don't know how to keep your fomo in check. Cheers.

Teach us the way sensei. Also it could be that you don't know the difference between the drops from loot goblins with and without MF. It's basically 4 chaos orbs vs Divine+ everytime, which is massive.

"

bgdmm wrote:

"

RitualMurder wrote:

sweet lord people
will nothing make you happy?

its getting sad now...

just stop

AN is gone

yes some monsters should drop better

"oh no people who play in groups have an advantage" you say

welcome to how the game has always been nice to have you join us since 2014

stop it now

go away with these garbage posts already

This.

Nope, both you and commenter are absolutely wrong here.

"

6_din_49 wrote:

"

leto2626 wrote:

I don't get people like this OP. ALready jumping to conclusions, focusing on this weird MF thing all the time... I bet people like him have never played the game normally.

Also with the whole MF thing, can't we just get rid of this relic from the past? To me it makes no sense that people like this OP tellign me to wear utter crap uniques to get more chaos orbs per hour. We should always be playing in the most powerful gear we can get. Just my two cents.

If some players enjoy spending 15 min/map, or farming low tier maps because they wear MF gear, good for them.

Personally I prefer "fast mapper" play style - instead of clearing 5 maps/h with loot 2x, I'd rather clear 20+ maps/h with loot 1x. Yes, I get less loot per "loot goblin", but I find more "loot goblins" per hour.

I try to raise awareness because it doesn't look good so far and even more worrying after GGG posted FAQ. MF is completely fine, but not when it sacles loot goblins in specialway.

"

shadow_rps wrote:

"

6_din_49 wrote:

If some players enjoy spending 15 min/map, or farming low tier maps because they wear MF gear, good for them.

Personally I prefer "fast mapper" play style - instead of clearing 5 maps/h with loot 2x, I'd rather clear 20+ maps/h with loot 1x. Yes, I get less loot per "loot goblin", but I find more "loot goblins" per hour.

That's the point. If you try to fit some MF into non meta fun build you will lose efficiency. But if you use MF meta build you will blast those t16 even in MF gear.

Reason for this is described in OP post. Old MF was all about quantity. And quantity means uniques. Windripper, voidforge, sadimas, goldwyrm, ventors and t3 maps. But now with rarity scaling you can build very fast and efficient MF builds. You not enchained by uniques anymore. Moreover, if you build correctly you will outperform most non MF builds.

Bad things become worse when players began to plan MF gear in their builds. When this happens you can definetly expect GGG to plan drops with MF gear in mind. This was already started with removing of "historical bonus". The reason was simple - with historical bonus and MF gear 40 divines explosions became half mirror explosions. And as you know after previous league only dedicated MF char can see 40 divines drop.

So like it or not, with current rarity scaling system always be MF guy capable of doing same maps as you, but faster and get six times rewards. Remember, no FOMO.

Yeah, MF scaling loot goblins in special way needs to go.

"

Reinhart wrote:

Movemend speed problem will be even worse in 3.20 Update 1.

Movement speed makes your character faster and will now be mandatory because it gives you more currency per hour. That is a problem. You do not want to feel left out. Movement speed should be an option but it is not! Movement speed needs to be deleted!

Logic is not found here. Loot goblins being scaled by MF in special way is new issue.

I am assuming that the difference in loot between having mf and no mf will be similar to pre 3.19. So this really comes down to whether mf is a good mechanical feature or not and therefore whether a decision between the sacrifice of character power for finding more/better items should be a thing to begin with.

As long as mf doesnt become mandatory to progress the game in terms of possibly hitting a brick wall in gear progression without it, i am fine with it. While i am not a fan of the mf mechanic as a whole, i dont care about it if i dont feel forced to us it.

But it really shouldnt become ANY more useful than it was pre 3.19, otherwise ggg will just shoot itself in the foot again. D2 did show very well how much a forced mf stacking can damage the diversity of usable items all the way to the point where some of the strongest items had to feature mf to be of use.

"

Zeronemo wrote:

I am assuming that the difference in loot between having mf and no mf will be similar to pre 3.19.

The problem is that this is likely a bad assumption. If the AN mod "Dropped items are converted to currency based on Rarity" remains in the game (and there has been no indication yet that it is being removed), MF is fundamentally different post 3.19 than pre 3.19.

The manifesto addressed the "call-a-culler" problem that the new loot-goblins introduced, but it doesn't address the loot goblins themselves.

Every time you pop a random rare with that mod and it drops 3 Chaos and a Regal, you're going to realize that with MF gear that may well have been 3 Exalted and a Divine. Literally hundreds of times more valuable. That sucks.

The problem isn't going to go away unless the "Dropped items are converted to currency based on Rarity" is removed, and maybe even "Dropped items are converted to divination cards" too.

Loot conversion is the problem that was added in 3.19 that distinguishes MF today (and maybe 3.20) from pre-3.19.

"

AcrylicHercules wrote:

"

Zeronemo wrote:

I am assuming that the difference in loot between having mf and no mf will be similar to pre 3.19.

The problem is that this is likely a bad assumption. If the AN mod "Dropped items are converted to currency based on Rarity" remains in the game (and there has been no indication yet that it is being removed), MF is fundamentally different post 3.19 than pre 3.19.

The manifesto addressed the "call-a-culler" problem that the new loot-goblins introduced, but it doesn't address the loot goblins themselves.

Every time you pop a random rare with that mod and it drops 3 Chaos and a Regal, you're going to realize that with MF gear that may well have been 3 Exalted and a Divine. Literally hundreds of times more valuable. That sucks.

The problem isn't going to go away unless the "Dropped items are converted to currency based on Rarity" is removed, and maybe even "Dropped items are converted to divination cards" too.

Loot conversion is the problem that was added in 3.19 that distinguishes MF today (and maybe 3.20) from pre-3.19.

Yes, and i am afraid it will end up like that too. Thats why i especially mentioned pre 3.19. If they dont adress the conversion mechanic, they will just end up with an unfixed problem and the following shitstorm.

"

AcrylicHercules wrote:

The problem is that this is likely a bad assumption. If the AN mod "Dropped items are converted to currency based on Rarity" remains in the game (and there has been no indication yet that it is being removed), MF is fundamentally different post 3.19 than pre 3.19.

The manifesto addressed the "call-a-culler" problem that the new loot-goblins introduced, but it doesn't address the loot goblins themselves.

Every time you pop a random rare with that mod and it drops 3 Chaos and a Regal, you're going to realize that with MF gear that may well have been 3 Exalted and a Divine. Literally hundreds of times more valuable. That sucks.

The problem isn't going to go away unless the "Dropped items are converted to currency based on Rarity" is removed, and maybe even "Dropped items are converted to divination cards" too.

Loot conversion is the problem that was added in 3.19 that distinguishes MF today (and maybe 3.20) from pre-3.19.

+1, nothing to add