POE 2 to have Open Zones, WPVP, World Bosses, Bigger Towns, More Multiplayer, RP Taverns, Future.

"

yamface wrote:

in what pvp game is there any real flexibility in skill and talent choices?

also op is not recognizing that pretty much every game is p2w. and mmos dont really give a shit about pvp to begin with

This a good clip, the best pvp titles have the most rigid characters to play, flexibility is actually anathema to pvp balance - this is why games like CSGo can be extremely competitive because they have so many rigid rules for the players then they just play out multiple rounds.

Honestly MMO design is a blight upon gaming, players don't appreciate the steep cost paid to make something MM to begin with, you have to cut so much to get to stable performance with everyones favourite 12345 combat.

That combat was shit when WoW was new, its still shit but its the price we pay to keep the system simple enough to be translated to enough players.

That's only the combat too I won't even get started on the design price you pay now, so many features intended for no purpose other than to draw out playtime and attempt to justify a sub. Gross!

I love the potential and hopefully some developer someday will break the mould all the rest think they are in but until then anytime you see the letters MMO you should automatically assume its a bad thing.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

"

RuneLuthien wrote:

So yes as a real life elf, who also likes skill based game. I have to play Planetside 2 for skill pvp from time to time.

Stress mine.

I'm desperate to know what being a 'real life elf' has to do with 'having to play Planetside 2'.

I've never met a real life elf so is this a common interest for your race? Has anyone told the devs about this? They could maybe tailor the game more for real life elves. Untapped market and whatnot.

Also, which sort of elf are you? The Deedlit kind, the Drizzt kind, the Fae kind? One I've neglected to mention?

__

As to the query which pvp game has flexibility in skill and talent choices? Uh, that's easy. The game GGG wish they could have made: Guild Wars 1. And yes, people still play it.

A RL elf is probably a Man that has feminine traits both visual and characterwise.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

"

yamface wrote:

in what pvp game is there any real flexibility in skill and talent choices?

also op is not recognizing that pretty much every game is p2w. and mmos dont really give a shit about pvp to begin with

This a good clip, the best pvp titles have the most rigid characters to play, flexibility is actually anathema to pvp balance - this is why games like CSGo can be extremely competitive because they have so many rigid rules for the players then they just play out multiple rounds.

Honestly MMO design is a blight upon gaming, players don't appreciate the steep cost paid to make something MM to begin with, you have to cut so much to get to stable performance with everyones favourite 12345 combat.

That combat was shit when WoW was new, its still shit but its the price we pay to keep the system simple enough to be translated to enough players.

That's only the combat too I won't even get started on the design price you pay now, so many features intended for no purpose other than to draw out playtime and attempt to justify a sub. Gross!

I love the potential and hopefully some developer someday will break the mould all the rest think they are in but until then anytime you see the letters MMO you should automatically assume its a bad thing.

There is a safe middle ground on design and fun. WoW PvP was fun for years and people complained that it was too fast or too slow or too unfair.

So Bluzzard did what they do too often. They caved to the majority opinion even though it was clearly wrong. Adding things like PvP templates which ignore itemization, fumbling class / spec balance and being too slow to react to poorly implemented ideas.

The right thing to do is firstly recognize players can be wrong or right. It's not always one or the other. Those with a good understanding of the genre have more to offer than those who do not and a title or number of hours played doesn't necessarily translate to the value of opinion.

WoW PvP was fun before wowhead, this is a little bit in depth to get into but MMOs suffered massively from free access to all their information to all the players.

So Vanilla pvp was really fun because nobody knew what they were doing, builds were terrible, players were terrible and we could all have a good time at some point or other (except if you were on a server with massive pop imbalance)

WotLK pvp was DKs and Pallys running around 2 shotting everyone while invulnerable and was a horrendous experience.

It got better or worse from there depending on which pvp section you were playing, they fixed the imbalances by making battles so big that players couldn't reliably stack the outcome but ranked is just as one sided as it was in the DK/pally hayday.

You could make a reasonable argument that GW2 had good PvP but someone else would have to talk about that one, I absolutely hated being able to use all skills while moving and felt like it made combat feel awful and very ranged focused. Battleship meta I think they called it something like that. I don't have enough experience of that to say if its good or not though but the traditional MMO PvP formula created by WoW and carried forwards is only fun when the scale is made to where specific class imbalances become less important.

Agree with your last paragraph for sure though too, Its hard to get a read on as a developer as good examples are rare and most of them have restrictions you can't justify. Some takes are great even from players who barely play and some from jaded old crusters like me are wrong because we have the wrong perspective or didn't consider key details.

You know why MMO pvp is stupid? Because everyone thinks it should be balanced around his skill level.

LoL is the clearest example of this. Go on their forums, you will see fuckton of topics about "stupid meta", "this char is OP", "this one is dogshit" etc and then Worlds starts and pro players use like 130 different champions.

Balance is a myth. With enough complaining devs are forced to do changes in pretty balanced pvp and it always devolves into this boring snoozfest where every class feels the same (check WoW classes for example, they all can do pretty much same things) or its stupid zerg rush and the bigger ball of death wins. Evey single time.

"

cherub1010 wrote:

Threads like this kind of make you appreciate GGG's vision for the game.
Most streamers respect PoE for the game it is.
It's not streamers that will keep this game successful it's players wanting to be challenged and believing in a game company that wont every week empty their wallet.

" Most Streamers " Ye most streamers respect POE for being what it is, tho the most popular streamers do not make video topics of POE very often or at all. Simply since it's not a MMO.

So no most streamers mention POE for a second or 1 minute, then forget about it, & don't fully highlight POE due to it not being a MMO. & Most pc streamers have never heard of these POE popular streamers, POE streamers aren't even usually general pc popular streamers. Once again due to not being a MMO.

If POE is so much better than Lost Ark & It is. Than after everyone realized Lost Ark was trash & Lost Ark lost 1 million US players few months ago. WHY wasn't everyone then talking about how amazing POE is for huge topic threads, instead of just quick quotes? Hmm why?! BECAUSE POE ISN'T A MMO. That's why.

So they'd rather talk about horrible games like Lost Ark or Diablo Immortal or New World for months at a time, rather than talking about POE. Obviously top tier streamers don't even do what I do, which is Mass PVP. Tho they don't do what POE streamers do either which is lack of party streams.

Also I'm sure this forum believes their POE only references streamers are helping this game more than general popular pc streamers would. Simply that's wrong, general pc reviewers help any pc game more than some niche streamer wearing dark boy band outfits. I suppose death metal loner streamers fits a arpg with dark omen style. Yet overall this game still needs someone is has personality & most poe streamers don't have the personality to make this game reach a broader audience. Which reaches point #2. Forum reply'ers limit the broader audience, trying to keep this game " true " yet " true " is bias as hekk. As I played D2 just as much as you, doesn't mean I don't want parties without healers, or better environments openness.

It's possible to be a fan of D2 & be a fan of other pc games & realize POE isn't D2. It's POE. & always has room for flexibility. The only game without room for flexibility is Diablo 2 Ressurected & that's dying from limitation.

What you are asking though is making it a completely different game and kill what people like in it just so you could enjoy the game.

"

imanubcake wrote:

What you are asking though is making it a completely different game and kill what people like in it just so you could enjoy the game.

This, essentially.

If I want to play a shooter that also has loot and some character building, I play Borderlands. The atmostphere and characters of these games are just the icing on the cake.

That's why BL series is good: It does what it proposes to do and does it well. Now, imagine what the fuckup would be if Gearbox tried to implement Tabletop D&D complexity for builds in their games? Cause you know... BL is also an RPG game, right?

Theoretically, they could try something in this direction... but to greatly commit to it would be an extremely dumb decision.

"

imanubcake wrote:

What you are asking though is making it a completely different game and kill what people like in it just so you could enjoy the game.

" Different game " Most of D2 is dungeon styled. So the simple answer is to make a open world that is styled after the D2 Act 1 first field you quest. The first quest grass field of D2. So that grass field, all the devs had to do was model their game off that grass field, yet make it open zones like Ragnarok Online. Ta da. Easy. Then if you want the authentic Diablo 2 experience. Which is already 90% of dungeons for D2 anyways. You then find a dungeon to explore amongst the open fields. Also D2 had the cow level for a endgame for freak sake & people don't know how to evolve grass fields past story locked zones? Ragnarok had zones, yet they were open, why is that so tough to do? It's still ZONES, they just don't don't lead to a DEAD END. Theirs still D2 DUNGEONS, but theirs also ENDLESS FIELDS. Like go kill the raven queen as one of the D2 quests. Yet that archer quest boss is a world boss now. Easy solutions. D2 has outside quests.

After that you make a town that's x10 larger than the Diablo 2 Act 1 town. That hosts 100 players the way the first Guild Wars game hosted 100 players per town via 17 years ago. Some of these feature I suggest are 20 years old of ideas. Not every game should be Everquest. Keep it a ARPG, which mostly means ACTION role playing game. SO ACTION RP with PROGRESSION. & Has nothing to do with limited multiplayer. Just simple means tiny hero progression with action skills. Diablo 2 also had worst internet then. That dial internet no wonder its multiplayer was less. By these standards we should be using the AOL forums to talk about POE. You've got mail. Forget Facebook lets use Myspace forever. Myspace 2022.


" Kill what players like about the game? " I only started playing from Expedition & most of the threads bash this game, troll this game, argue about minute details more than any game ever. & Many people don't know the best path for POE tbh. Or seems so.

I do know most threads aren't about " what people like about POE " quite the opposite.

Most of the threads boil down to arguing over mob or boss 1 hits, minute details of items streamer's abuse, crafting is gambling, & some tug of war debate over hard mode or not. That zoomers ruin the game. Or a boring talk over endgame items for a 1 hour pod. Without mentioning zero pvp that whole hour. Meh. Or other unique features. Meh. Just endgame loot for nerds.

All of those topics, I don't find that entertaining. I find the 2 threads I made more entertaining. You don't need to be a fan. Tho ye I prefer better multiplayer, rp, pvp, hair options, town servers, ragnarok field zones, & guilds to be outside not isolated around hideouts. Then adding 30 points to the skill tree, making the skill tree tougher to master or understand. Randomized skill tree beta. Skill tree link hopping portals.

New World failed tho add what it did well. Open world pvp. Lost Ark failed tho add what it did well arena pvp fighting with dodges rolls and more active skills to use. Diablo 3 failed so maybe venture outside the box.

the audacity.